Is Britain racist to the core? - General

Aired on BBC iPlayer a week or two ago. This guy raises some very good points that are hard to disagree with imo. [video=youtube;7YCu5B6AMoQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YCu5B6AMoQ[/video]

Voting either way would make me the racist.

that aborigine thing is fucked up.

Voted no on the poll but agreed with the sentiment that people take tend to take a rather unobjective and/or perhaps sympathetic look at white extremists and immigrants I think the majority of people have good intentions and have no problem with coexisting with other races in a multicultural society but their perceptions are distorted nonetheless sometimes

"good on her" wow what the fuck lmao

Some of the things the host said made it sound like he believes any support for any sort of immigration restrictions is inherently racist. I don't think a tiny island like Britain can support free immigration forever, especially if the government hopes to provide services like housing and healthcare.

Australia is incredibly racist, casual racism is embedded to the core of society, anybody who says otherwise is lying. At high school we had two Aboriginal people who'd hang with us and the amount of racist jokes were astounding, ranging from "we took your fucking land" to "petrol helps with the dream time aye?" I'll admit I played my role in these conversations and I'm not proud of it Discrimination against anybody who isn't white is also extreme, people won't refuse you service or any of that shit but people will look at you weirdly and pretend you don't exist. I've seen multiple instances of Black people sitting next to a white person on a bus with them changing seats, for what reason? Tell me it's not their race and you've got be full of shit. Our town recently accepted a ton of African asylum seekers and I've already heard shit like "next thing you know we'll be like Cape Town being run by all these fucking blacks". Some suburbs in Brisbane because of their mass African population have been dubbed "New South Africa" or "Zimbabwe" Australia gets it's casual racism from Britain, we were so normalised to it and lead that Aboriginals were nothing but animals for a long time that it still exist today. It doesn't help when immigrants are portrayed as "boat people" or scum by our government, if anything it just further advances the well alive "White Australia" shit. Britain is guilty, we're guilty and many western countries are guilty. Do not follow our system

[QUOTE=SoaringScout;47845407]Some of the things the host said made it sound like he believes any support for any sort of immigration restrictions is inherently racist. I don't think a tiny island like Britain can support free immigration forever, especially if the government hopes to provide services like housing and healthcare.[/QUOTE] It's a good thing we don't have "free immigration" then really isn't it? Outside of the EU agreements for free movement, we have incredibly restrictive immigration laws to the point that even a US citizen cannot get into this country for extended periods of time without a good amount of cashmoney and a job lined up waiting for them. The EU agreements whilst allowing free movement for things such as vacations and visits also do not allow a EU citizen to just roll into the country and stay forever. But it's nowhere near as restrictive as non-EU laws.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;47845442]It's a good thing we don't have "free immigration" then really isn't it? Outside of the EU agreements for free movement, we have incredibly restrictive immigration laws to the point that even a US citizen cannot get into this country for extended periods of time without a good amount of cashmoney and a job lined up waiting for them. The EU agreements whilst allowing free movement for things such as vacations and visits also do not allow a EU citizen to just roll into the country and stay forever. But it's nowhere near as restrictive as non-EU laws.[/QUOTE] Ah. I wasn't aware of Britain's border laws.

[QUOTE=SoaringScout;47845448]Ah. I wasn't aware of Britain's border laws.[/QUOTE] They're not Australia silly, but they are nowhere near as open as shitcunts like UKIP would have you believe. I'm not too familiar with the immigration laws of other countries myself, but I do hear we have some of the more restrictive ones in the western world.

I [I]mostly[/I] agree with the points he's making but I really don't believe Britain is racist, I know some people in Britain are racist. I think the fact that everyone is agreeing with all his points says something about racism in our culture: how can a society to be racist, when everyone in that society unanimously agrees that racism exists, that racism is bad and calls out and criticizes those who are racist? Am I naïve for thinking that things like racism and homophobia are going become less and less common with the passing of each generation and with the increase in quality and quantity of education?

everyone is a little bit racist.

[QUOTE=patq911;47845953]everyone is a little bit racist.[/QUOTE] Depends how you define racist: "The Oxford English Dictionary defines racism as the "belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races" and the expression of such prejudice" I don't believe I fall under that definition of racist, despite all the silly race jokes I've made, I don't believe most of the people I know do either.

[QUOTE=Rossy167;47845984]Depends how you define racist: "The Oxford English Dictionary defines racism as the "belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races" and the expression of such prejudice" I don't believe I fall under that definition of racist, despite all the silly race jokes I've made, I don't believe most of the people I know do either.[/QUOTE] [video=youtube;RovF1zsDoeM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovF1zsDoeM[/video]

boyle using the "who's gonna build the wall" joke that carlos mencia stole back in like 2004. come on dude, you're better than that

[QUOTE=Rossy167;47845925]I [I]mostly[/I] agree with the points he's making but I really don't believe Britain is racist, I know some people in Britain are racist. I think the fact that everyone is agreeing with all his points says something about racism in our culture: how can a society to be racist, when everyone in that society unanimously agrees that racism exists, that racism is bad and calls out and criticizes those who are racist? Am I naïve for thinking that things like racism and homophobia are going become less and less common with the passing of each generation and with the increase in quality and quantity of education?[/QUOTE] I don't know man. I think you're missing the fact that they're not addressing UKIP-style "you're black, fuck off" racism, but the more subtle "you're black, I'll quietly have second thoughts about sitting next to you on the bus" racism.

[QUOTE=Stopper;47846033]I don't know man. I think you're missing the fact that they're not addressing UKIP-style "you're black, fuck off" racism, but the more subtle "you're black, I'll quietly have second thoughts about sitting next to you on the bus" racism.[/QUOTE] No, I'm not missing that. I'm talking about it too. Also, Akala saying that all those 700 people left to drown off the coast of the Mediterranean wouldn't have been left to drown if they were white was a bit too far imo.

[QUOTE=Rossy167;47845925]I [I]mostly[/I] agree with the points he's making but I really don't believe Britain is racist, I know some people in Britain are racist. I think the fact that everyone is agreeing with all his points says something about racism in our culture: how can a society to be racist, when everyone in that society unanimously agrees that racism exists, that racism is bad and calls out and criticizes those who are racist? Am I naïve for thinking that things like racism and homophobia are going become less and less common with the passing of each generation and with the increase in quality and quantity of education?[/QUOTE] But like he said, it's easy to point out individual incidents of racism because that's what we can easily identify. Most everyone agrees that racism is bad, but there are institutions and systems in place which are racist, and this is what he was talking about- institutional racism. This is the sort of racism that is invisible to those not affected by it because it's not someone actively keeping someone else down, it's a system of laws and societal norms, and sometimes the societal standards and dialogue, that prevent racial equality. Take, for instance, and this is the US because it's where I'm most familiar with, in Chicago the past few years there was a relatively quiet investigation that found that real estate and financial institutions were acting in such a way as to prevent black people from obtaining home in certain areas by giving them a higher standard for applying for loans, mortgages, and home cost reduction than white people. This was an industry standard that was being applied subconsciously by many people, or imitated to maintain competition by other companies. If you were to ask every person in that entire industry in that area, I'm sure that most of them would say they aren't racist, they're for equality, and that black people are being treated fairly, unaware of the higher standards being placed upon them that led to a disparate position. In this instance, no one is actively suppressing black people, but the institutional processes were actively harming black people. No one wrote up the rules on day saying "higher standards for black people", but for a variety of reasons that was the case. Is it fair to say that the people in the industry were racist? No, of course not. But the institution itself was, and if you aren't being affected by it, then you aren't going to notice it as easily. This is what he means with "racist to the core"- it's less that people are openly racist, but instead that the country is built on systems and institutions that perpetuate racial inequality.

[QUOTE=Rossy167;47846058]No, I'm not missing that. I'm talking about it too. Also, Akala saying that all those 700 people left to drown off the coast of the Mediterranean wouldn't have been left to drown if they were white was a bit too far imo.[/QUOTE] Not really. It'd be proclaimed a day of tragedy [I]at least.[/I] And if it would be a boat full of seven hundred white people, or god-forbid, [I]Englishmen[/I], that gets sunk by another nation's coast guard for trying to not even enter its waters, but enter international waters, the country of origin would probably consider it an outright act of terrorism and war against itself and its people.

"What are you going to do, build a wall around Britain? Who'se going to build the wall?" The Romans.

[QUOTE=patq911;47845953]everyone is a little bit racist.[/QUOTE] I think you meant, "everyone is a little bit prejudiced" which is due to of what makes up our experiences in life.

Hmm, I think the Empire was a good thing. Obviously there were some not so nice bits.

The rapper made a couple of goof comments (the whole "Great" Britain thing, "most Muslims are brown," Russia and India saved the UK in WWII) but otherwise he's completely right.

That man saying the term Great Britain came from colonialism is completely incorrect, the term is derived from ancient times given to us by Greek and Romans. Likewise his over simplification of current affairs is just as obnoxious and weird. I don't like that this biased pandering show was funded by the BBC, I expected it to be Channel 4 at the least.

Britain is a diverse and tolerant country just like Sweden, and I've been to both countries for High School trips.

[QUOTE=Jackald;47846596]He's just regurgitating a lot of neocolonial arguments. Why should I feel guilty for the sins of my father? Inherited sin is one of the reasons why racism exists in the first place; e.g. "The Germans bombed us in 1944 therefore I hate Germans, even Germans that weren't even born at the time."[/QUOTE] Yeah to be honest his comments about Germany were kinda fucked up, also the idea that Russia and India saved Britain in WWII, when in reality Russia would never have engaged in the war had Germany not attacked them (indeed they attacked Poland (the reason why France and Britain went to war at all) just like the Nazis did). I agree with him on most of his points, but he also seems to simplify stuff [I]a lot[/I]. The way he talks about homophobia, it sounds like it's an exclusively white thing that can only be introduced to other societies, not exist there on its own.

He's so far off I barely know where to start... The British Empire was never about spreading civilization. You think people would build an empire that covered a quarter of the land on earth and most of its seas in order to spread civilization?! The British Empire was a trading empire. No one gave a shit about the civilizations of the countries involved so long as they were willing to trade. I mean, sure, there were probably a few misguided self-righteous assholes who justified it as spreading civilization, but misguided self-righteous assholes will be misguided self-righteous assholes. The SJWs of another era, if you like. The people who actually built the British Empire didn't give a fuck, they were just after trade. Where leaders could be found who were willing to trade with us we'd trade with them, support them in staying in power (because their replacement might not be willing to trade) and otherwise leave them to run their countries as they saw fit, a mutually beneficial arrangement. If they didn't want to trade we'd find a way to get them to trade, or find someone willing to trade and back them taking over power (didn't as a rule make the rookie mistake of outright knocking over a country and setting up a puppet ruler, since this tends to leave at least half the country hating you and a weak puppet will quickly get disposed without long-term support to prop them up). So yeah, not really defending how Britain treated other countries building its empire, but it was always about trade and never about spreading civilization or some duty to the world BS. He's also way off saying that British rates of minorities being incarcerated or dying in police custody is anything like the situation in America. What little difference we have in rates of incarceration is easily explained by most immigrants being 1st or 2nd generation in the UK (unlikely to be more than 3rd), as such slightly poorer on average and also more likely to have moved to major cities where the crime rate is higher, meaning they are a bit more likely to get involved with crime than the average for the overall population. That's all, there is no racism involved.

[QUOTE=Explosions;47846374]The rapper made a couple of goof comments (the whole "Great" Britain thing, "most Muslims are brown," Russia and India saved the UK in WWII) but otherwise he's completely right.[/QUOTE] I think his point was that whether most Muslims actually are brown doesn't matter too much, since our tabloid media and resultantly our political sphere both heavily rely on the assumption (or pushing the assumption) that they are. Take a look at any Daily Mail column on the subject and it'll invariably be headed by a picture of several brown Muslims - a couple women in hijabs is the classic standby - silhouetted against some famous local landmark of whatever place they're writing about, as if to say "the fuckers are even here, too!" the way you might check under your mattress for roaches. And remember that ginger dude who was putting up posters encouraging Sharia law in London? It was treated like such a novelty by the tabloids, how silly and cute he looked with his beard and his robe and his dinky little hat, not knowing that only [I]proper[/I] Muslims could wear those. But it was also very scary because it meant that not only could immigrants (not expats, [I]immigrants[/I]) be Muslim, but also that actual pure-bred BRITISH people weren't immune to it either! Oh my lord, what if he inspires [I]actual[/I] citizens to partake in this Sharia nonsense!? [I]!!QUISLING GINGER FREAK'S PLOY TO CONVERT WHOLE OF BRITAIN EXPOSED, READ ALL ABOUT IT EXCLUSIVELY IN THIS WEEK'S MAIL ON SUNDAY!![/I] Writes itself, really.

[QUOTE=Complifused;47846332]Hmm, I think the Empire was a good thing. Obviously there were some not so nice bits.[/QUOTE] enlighten us

[QUOTE=Bad)-(and;47847820]enlighten us[/QUOTE] Trade for starters, not to mention all the 'new' places discovered. As I said, there were some bad bits. Empire lead to lots of gains in engineering and the likes so that's another thing to add to the list.