[QUOTE=counterpo0;49581463]Drop pods when?[/QUOTE]
This thing will be capable of returning from space and landing on ground using only the engines. We could start seeing manned flights next year if everything goes to plan. Although at first they will be using parachutes to land.
It also looks like a scifi on the inside.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjSb_b4TtxI[/media]
The interior looks almost [I]too minimalist[/I]. I mean its a glass cockpit with (Rad-Hard LCDs..? That's a new one) almost all control on touchscreens or the few buttons, but I would've expected alot more throttles, knobs or hard switches. Especially when you're in your pressure/g suit.
[QUOTE=LoneWolf_Recon;49583982]The interior looks almost [I]too minimalist[/I]. I mean its a glass cockpit with (Rad-Hard LCDs..? That's a new one) almost all control on touchscreens or the few buttons, but I would've expected alot more throttles, knobs or hard switches. Especially when you're in your pressure/g suit.[/QUOTE]
If it's designed as such it's probably okay. SpaceX's suit for use in this, while we haven't had an official announcement show them they did pay a photographer from Vogue so it may look something like this:
[thumb]https://i.imgur.com/PAnqbTM.jpg[/thumb]
[QUOTE=LoneWolf_Recon;49583982]The interior looks almost [I]too minimalist[/I]. I mean its a glass cockpit with (Rad-Hard LCDs..? That's a new one) almost all control on touchscreens or the few buttons, but I would've expected alot more throttles, knobs or hard switches. Especially when you're in your pressure/g suit.[/QUOTE]
pretty sure once nasa gets their hands on it its going to be filled with crap, plus backup systems. but the idea with the dragon is its automation that will cut down on a lot of stuff
[QUOTE=OvB;49583886]It also looks like a scifi on the inside.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjSb_b4TtxI[/media][/QUOTE]
It does now, but wait until it looks more like a soyuz once they put all the cargo in.
i do wonder how NASA is going to approach space-x's landing ideas, they're probably going to have to do some uncrewed landings a few times before NASA gives them the go ahead, especially since its not landing under parachute
[QUOTE=Sableye;49594319]i do wonder how NASA is going to approach space-x's landing ideas, they're probably going to have to do some uncrewed landings a few times before NASA gives them the go ahead, especially since its not landing under parachute[/QUOTE]
It's going to be landing under parachutes at least for the first few launches. Just like with the F9 landings, the reuse/landing of them is secondary to the mission, and SpaceX will have to prove it's safety on their own dollar before landing with crew. It will however always have parachutes for safety. The computers will do a systems check before lighting the engines and if everything isn't 100% it'll pop the chutes.
[QUOTE=OvB;49594401]It's going to be landing under parachutes at least for the first few launches. Just like with the F9 landings, the reuse/landing of them is secondary to the mission, and SpaceX will have to prove it's safety on their own dollar before landing with crew. It will however always have parachutes for safety. The computers will do a systems check before lighting the engines and if everything isn't 100% it'll pop the chutes.[/QUOTE]
Or maybe keep the launch escape system around, since using it as a landing escape system isn't that far from the original purpose anyways.
The exterior really reminds me of this :v:
[t]http://cdn.escapistmagazine.com/media/global/images/library/deriv/599/599547.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=paindoc;49594763]Or maybe keep the launch escape system around, since using it as a landing escape system isn't that far from the original purpose anyways.[/QUOTE]
That's what they're doing. The SuperDraco engines will be used for launch escape (if things go badly) or for landing (if things go well). The parachutes are a backup for the propulsive landing (or for landing after abort) - they're rougher but still get the job done.
[QUOTE=Sableye;49594319]i do wonder how NASA is going to approach space-x's landing ideas, they're probably going to have to do some uncrewed landings a few times before NASA gives them the go ahead, especially since its not landing under parachute[/QUOTE]
Back in 2014 a document was filed indicating they intend to do about 30 test flights of the capsule without any people on board.
[QUOTE]Propulsive Assist: Chopper drop from 10k feet, parachutes deploy, engines soften the landing. 2 flights.
Full Propulsive Landing: Chopper drop from 10k feet, full engine landing with no parachutes. 2 flights.
Propulsive Assist Hopping: Launches itself from the pad to 7k feet, deploys parachutes, and lands under power to soften the landing. 8 flights.
Full Propulsive Hopping: Launches itself from the pad to 7k feet, hovers, and lands under power. 18 (eighteen) flights.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=paindoc;49594763]Or maybe keep the launch escape system around, since using it as a landing escape system isn't that far from the original purpose anyways.[/QUOTE]
As gman003-main said the engines are also used for the launch escape system, it's literally built into the capsule rather than throwing it away like others do.
[video=youtube;1_FXVjf46T8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_FXVjf46T8[/video]
Ah, clever and a sleek design. After saying that I had sorta wondered about what would happen if you kept a conventional solid LES on the top- chances are the aerodynamics and CG would be fukt for takeoff and landing, or the system would be / could be damaged by re-entry.
Admittedly haven't paid as much attention to SpaceX as I should have - the only employment they do near me is for the Satellite factory in Bellevue afaik.
[QUOTE=paindoc;49595658]Ah, clever and a sleek design. After saying that I had sorta wondered about what would happen if you kept a conventional solid LES on the top- chances are the aerodynamics and CG would be fukt for takeoff and landing, or the system would be / could be damaged by re-entry.
Admittedly haven't paid as much attention to SpaceX as I should have - the only employment they do near me is for the Satellite factory in Bellevue afaik.[/QUOTE]
They also want the system to be able to land on Mars with little to no modification. Was talk a couple of months ago of a concept mission using the Dragon v2 with some modifications to return a sample from Mars to Earth. Would send the capsule to Mars with an extra engine and fuel to help it escape Mars, that extra engine should also be enough to let it return to some form of orbit around Earth, and you would then use a second rocket to acquire the samples and return them to Earth. The SuperDraco engines would allow the capsule to land close to a rover fairly accurately so it could deposit the samples into it.
Estimated cost was only $400 million as well. If such a mission was actually done we could have a piece of Mars on Earth in 4 - 6 years for the same price as what ULA was charging the Air Force for regular launches only a few years ago.
On the job side of things, they do pretty much all the development and build the rockets in Hawthorne, California. Satellite developments from SpaceX could be interesting though in the next few years, with Musk's plans for building a massive (~4400) LEO satellite constellation to provide decent internet to the whole world. He talked about potentially deploying a second one to Mars as well and connecting them so that colonists on Mars could browse Earth based internet.
[QUOTE=Morgen;49595882]They also want the system to be able to land on Mars with little to no modification. Was talk a couple of months ago of a concept mission using the Dragon v2 with some modifications to return a sample from Mars to Earth. Would send the capsule to Mars with an extra engine and fuel to help it escape Mars, that extra engine should also be enough to let it return to some form of orbit around Earth, and you would then use a second rocket to acquire the samples and return them to Earth. The SuperDraco engines would allow the capsule to land close to a rover fairly accurately so it could deposit the samples into it.
Estimated cost was only $400 million as well. If such a mission was actually done we could have a piece of Mars on Earth in 4 - 6 years for the same price as what ULA was charging the Air Force for regular launches only a few years ago.
On the job side of things, they do pretty much all the development and build the rockets in Hawthorne, California. Satellite developments from SpaceX could be interesting though in the next few years, with Musk's plans for building a massive (~4400) LEO satellite constellation to provide decent internet to the whole world. He talked about potentially deploying a second one to Mars as well and connecting them so that colonists on Mars could browse Earth based internet.[/QUOTE]
I don't doubt much of what he claims, but landing on Mars is ludicrously hard due to the thinness of the atmosphere. Where is the data showing they could pull this landing off? Regardless of size, it's a lot of Delta V to go from Mars, land, return to orbit, and fly back to Earth. Nevermind the time waiting for alignment and transfer windows, cus is you miss that you're waiting a while. Also, long term space travel is not good for human crew.
Also, lag between Mars and Earth will be tough and the Martian magnetosphere is nonexistent compared to Earth's. Satellites for WiFi transmission there will have to be exceptionally resilient and are particularly vulnerable to any solar weather.
Earth based cluster is still going to require special equipment too, for people wanting to use it. It has to be a phased array system as the satellites are just being put into LEO to save money, and the speed of the relative motion of these satellites (due to orbit) makes that a requirement.
Regardless, it's a cool company. Idk about working for them though, I've heard it's not the best conditions and the hours required are mental. Near deadlines, seven day work weeks are not unheard of. Also a grad student friend who was there for a while said it seemed "cultish". I'd rather chance it with Planetary Resources, Aerodyne, Blue Origin, or even NASA tbh. All of these guys along with SpaceX will be at the job fair at my Uni in a few days, and I'm mostly just hoping to get more info on their job requirements and environments tbh
[QUOTE=paindoc;49595949]I don't doubt much of what he claims, but landing on Mars is ludicrously hard due to the thinness of the atmosphere. Where is the data showing they could pull this landing off? Regardless of size, it's a lot of Delta V to go from Mars, land, return to orbit, and fly back to Earth. Nevermind the time waiting for alignment and transfer windows, cus is you miss that you're waiting a while. Also, long term space travel is not good for human crew.
Also, lag between Mars and Earth will be tough and the Martian magnetosphere is nonexistent compared to Earth's. Satellites for WiFi transmission there will have to be exceptionally resilient and are particularly vulnerable to any solar weather.
Earth based cluster is still going to require special equipment too, for people wanting to use it. It has to be a phased array system as the satellites are just being put into LEO to save money, and the speed of the relative motion of these satellites (due to orbit) makes that a requirement.
Regardless, it's a cool company. Idk about working for them though, I've heard it's not the best conditions and the hours required are mental. Near deadlines, seven day work weeks are not unheard of. Also a grad student friend who was there for a while said it seemed "cultish". I'd rather chance it with Planetary Resources, Aerodyne, Blue Origin, or even NASA tbh. All of these guys along with SpaceX will be at the job fair at my Uni in a few days, and I'm mostly just hoping to get more info on their job requirements and environments tbh[/QUOTE]
I don't think any hard data has been shown yet but Musk has stated that Dragon v2 is expected to be able to send a payload of 2000kg - 4000kg to the surface of Mars via propulsive landing. He has even said it's capable of sending payloads further out to places such as Europa. The Dragon v2 won't send humans to Mars, they will be using the MCT for that onboard the BFR.
The Mars Satellites are still a distant pipe dream since there's no need for them at least a couple more decades. Doesn't communicating with any satellite require special equipment already?
Musk is known for running his companies pretty hard. Both Tesla and SpaceX are bad places to work if you want a life outside of work but you do get the chance to be involved with some really groundbreaking stuff.
[editline]24th January 2016[/editline]
NASA are the ones the proposed the sample return concept mission.
[IMG]http://i.space.com/images/i/000/050/051/original/red-dragon-mission-concept.jpg?1441863103[/IMG]
[QUOTE]A mission that uses SpaceX's Dragon capsule to help bring chunks of Mars rock back to Earth for analysis could launch as early as 2022, researchers say.
This "Red Dragon" project — which remains a concept at the moment, not an approved mission — would grab samples collected by NASA's 2020 Mars rover and send them rocketing back toward Earth, where researchers could scrutinize the material for possible signs of past Red Planet life.
The sample-return effort would keep costs and complexity down by using SpaceX's Falcon Heavy rocket and a modified version of the company's robotic Dragon cargo capsule, the concept's developers say. [Images: 'Red Dragon' Sample-Return Concept]
Red Dragon is "technically feasible with the use of these emerging commercial technologies, coupled with technologies that already exist," Andy Gonzales, of NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, California, said Wednesday (Sept. 9) during a presentation with the space agency's Future In-Space Operations (FISO) working group.
The Red Dragon team has developed the concept independently, [B]without any involvement or endorsement by SpaceX[/B], Gonzales said.
...
Red Dragon is too heavy to use parachutes, but it could slow down enough for the SuperDracos to take over by entering the thin Martian atmosphere at a relatively shallow angle, thereby subjecting itself to the effects of drag for a long period of time, Lemke said.
[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.space.com/30504-spacex-red-dragon-mars-sample-return.html"]Source[/URL]
I love how the touchscreens look but honestly knobs dials and levers would be so much safer
If a lever or button breaks you lose the system till it can be fixed
If a touchscreen breaks you lose everything on the panel...plus theres the whole "no i wasnt going for that button i was trying to press the one right next to it" thing which in this case translates to "oh god oh god i just fired the secondary decent boosters instead of open the outer airlock now we are corkscrewing through space and i just left half my team floating back there..fucking touchscreen"
[QUOTE=Morgen;49595999]I don't think any hard data has been shown yet but Musk has stated that Dragon v2 is expected to be able to send a payload of 2000kg - 4000kg to the surface of Mars via propulsive landing. He has even said it's capable of sending payloads further out to places such as Europa. The Dragon v2 won't send humans to Mars, they will be using the MCT for that onboard the BFR.
The Mars Satellites are still a distant pipe dream since there's no need for them at least a couple more decades. Doesn't communicating with any satellite require special equipment already?
Musk is known for running his companies pretty hard. Both Tesla and SpaceX are bad places to work if you want a life outside of work but you do get the chance to be involved with some really groundbreaking stuff.
[editline]24th January 2016[/editline]
NASA are the ones the proposed the sample return concept mission.
[IMG]http://i.space.com/images/i/000/050/051/original/red-dragon-mission-concept.jpg?1441863103[/IMG]
[URL="http://www.space.com/30504-spacex-red-dragon-mars-sample-return.html"]Source[/URL][/QUOTE]
The sample return concept mission is more likely going to be retooled into Asteroid sample collection, it seems. I've worked with the professor (lightly) on 3D printing the prototype of the actual sample collection rocket. Current record for largest printed rocket! It's fired from a satellite, hits the Asteroid nose first to get some material, then retrofires and returns to the spacecraft. Sorta like a space harpoon
Communicating with satellites does require special equipment already, yes. This system will probably be nicer though, and the position in the orbit will lower latency compared to geostationary satellites or satellites like XM's that are in high_eccentricity molniya orbits.
And yeah, SpaceX is groundbreaking but I do want a life outside of work. I'd prefer to work for NASA, ITER (at the reactor rather), Ad Astra, or any other fusion drive/reactor labs since fusion is the best way to explore the outer planets
[editline]24th January 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=mini me;49596156]I love how the touchscreens look but honestly knobs dials and levers would be so much safer
If a lever or button breaks you lose the system till it can be fixed
If a touchscreen breaks you lose everything on the panel...plus theres the whole "no i wasnt going for that button i was trying to press the one right next to it" thing which in this case translates to "oh god oh god i just fired the secondary decent boosters instead of open the outer airlock now we are corkscrewing through space and i just left half my team floating back there..fucking touchscreen"[/QUOTE]
Not necessarily. Operating fine knobs with EVA gloves on is apparently a bitch, and you wear those fkr safety reasons during key mission stages (decompression is bad mmmkay). Touch screens can have big fuckin buttons, can be customized as the dragon evolves, can be updated as problems are noticed, and I'm sure SpaceX has considered this choice. Also, the most important buttons have physical copies. Most spacecraft are controlled from the ground anyways, the capsule controls are like failsafes.
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