#Shirtgate: Feminist heckles heard from outer space - The Factual Feminist - General

[hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNbQ3QjWX3o[/hd] The whole ordeal is a fucking disgrace, specially for him. He and his team have done something incredible, and they whine about a fucking shirt. If anything, it was tacky of him to wear such a shirt in light of such event, but [I]sexist[/I]? Pffffft.

I dunno why FP likes this conservative think tank so much. I've said this in the past, but this lady's basically just a 2014 version of Phyllis Schlafly. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Quit trying to make a shitstorm" - Craptasket))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46569923]I dunno why FP likes this conservative think tank so much.[/QUOTE] Because we don't care about the think tank, we care about Sommer's videos.

Even if she was a conservative how would that somehow invalidate her

Can people stop applying the "gate"-suffix to arbitrary things to sensationalize tiny issues? It's getting out of hand. [editline]25th November 2014[/editline] Also wasn't the guys shirt designed by a female friend of his anyway? That invalidates literally everything anyone can ever say on the subject, in my opinion. Sexist or not (which it isn't anyway).

It's a fucking shirt oh my god people. I wish my life was so void of troubles that I could bother arguing about a shirt.

"#Shirtgate: super skeleton heckles heard from outer space - The Factual super skeleton" The script continues to pay off.

You know what, fuck anyone who criticizes this guys shirt. He's a fucking scientist that helped landed a god damn space probe on a comet. Everyone worries about the god damn shirt. But when it comes to a fucking dumb slutbag with her ass hanging out in a widely known magazine, nothing comes of it. Because that's so god damn empowering. I used to think feminism was doing alright, but after this whole piss pot, I can only think 95% of feminists in the first world are a bunch of brain dead slack jawed dimwitts.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46569923]I dunno why FP likes this conservative think tank so much. I've said this in the past, but this lady's basically just a 2014 version of Phyllis Schlafly.[/QUOTE] I, personally (and probably everyone else), do not know how anyone can come to like you, but people somehow seem to do it

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46569923]I dunno why FP likes this conservative think tank so much. I've said this in the past, but this lady's basically just a 2014 version of Phyllis Schlafly.[/QUOTE] Nobody cares if she is a conservative or a liberal. What matters is that her views aren't batshit insane.

[QUOTE=Buck.;46570658]Nobody cares if she is a conservative or a liberal. What matters is that her views aren't batshit insane.[/QUOTE] Unless she goes off the deep end,she seems to be a good figurehead for the women's rights movement/feminism. She highlights the good works of women in the these industries and bring out statistics to support a rising number of women in what used to be men-dominated jobs(Which is something I felt was happening but didn't have the facts to back it up) Rather than point out the flaws and yelling about them which makes them sound worse than they actually are,she makes a point to show that the world isn't that shitty as some of the people claim it to be and can show women that they are not unwelcome to join these fields.

I couldn't give two shits if she's a conservative think tank or not, if she makes a good argument, which she does, I'll listen to it

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46569923]I dunno why FP likes this conservative think tank so much. I've said this in the past, but this lady's basically just a 2014 version of Phyllis Schlafly. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Quit trying to make a shitstorm" - Craptasket))[/highlight][/QUOTE] Isn't it about time you get last chance'd Your ban history extends down at least half of this page

I can't believe people gave this guy so much shit about it, he shouldn't need to apologize for NOTHING, the only thing he should really say in response to all this is "My 10 year mission to land a probe on a comet was successful, fuck you I do what I want"

[QUOTE=Coyoteze;46570000] Also wasn't the guys shirt designed by a female friend of his anyway? That invalidates literally everything anyone can ever say on the subject, in my opinion. Sexist or not (which it isn't anyway).[/QUOTE] Pfft like that ever stopped some of [I]those[/I] people

[QUOTE=Thunderbolt;46573084]I can't believe people gave this guy so much shit about it, he shouldn't need to apologize for NOTHING, the only thing he should really say in response to all this is "My 10 year mission to land a probe on a comet was successful, fuck you I do what I want"[/QUOTE] That's one way to get fired

The whole shirt thing was ridiculous. Yeah it's a little risqué, and yeah, those women are indeed sexualised. But the fact of the matter is, that shirt hasn't harmed anyone. It's just a fashion choice. Perhaps some would say it's inappropriate, but you can't go on a witch hunt for something as trivial as this. It's also really quite sad, how one aspect of feminism is supposed to advocate women being able to wear whatever they want without being harassed. To say that a man cannot wear what he wants without being harassed completely goes against their core message. And this video raises an excellent point. There are some problems for women in certain industries, but science clearly isn't one. Science is flourishing in terms of gender equality. We should be focussing on how good that is, not attacking someone over drawn women on a shirt.

I enjoyed the video, but then with 5 seconds left I realized her eye sockets are too big for her actual eyes. Man or woman, that shit looks spooky.

Current generation feminists are fucking terrible. I would wish we could ban them from journalism and using the internet. Together with every other sort of extremist out there.

Her jaw keeps wiggling uh oh

If I ever host a barbecue I'm gonna wear one of those faux "bikini body" aprons and see what happens. Hopefully not #aprongate.

I dont understand why people got mad at him. By judging him based on an innocent action not guided by a negative intent all they accomplish is demeaning some random scientist. I never got the point of getting mad at people over trivial stuff like this when its pretty apparent that the offender never had any intent to "rile people up" so to speak. Honestly if he was actively trying to promote sexism and gender inequality then using a shirt to convey that message is a little... insignificant?

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;46569923]I dunno why FP likes this conservative think tank so much. I've said this in the past, but this lady's basically just a 2014 version of Phyllis Schlafly. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Quit trying to make a shitstorm" - Craptasket))[/highlight][/QUOTE] good riddance

Hey world, here's a tip: Stop getting hanged up in bullshit, materialistic shit AND uptight new-age feminism shit. Stop listening to morons and listen to your hearts <3

[QUOTE=NeverGoWest;46573468]Current generation feminists are fucking terrible. I would wish we could ban them from journalism and using the internet. Together with every other sort of extremist out there.[/QUOTE] You're saying that like every current generation feminist is an extremist, when really you're talking about a very loud minority.

[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;46575581]You're saying that like every current generation feminist is an extremist, when really you're talking about a very loud minority.[/QUOTE] Part of the real issue here is third wave feminism and how some schools of thought teach it and the academic environments that it thrives in don't create strong levels of self criticism on their own schools of thought. They're essentially professional echochambers and many of the people who attend these environments are going to be very much in a situation to be persuaded by that though they may not understand the full reasoning and arguments behind it. This creates a loud but weak group of people who support those ideas. And third wave feminism isn't purely terrible but it's largely weak.

[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;46575581]You're saying that like every current generation feminist is an extremist, when really you're talking about a very loud minority.[/QUOTE] It's not really a minority of the more reasonable feminists, it's a major segregation of Gender Feminists and Equity Feminists with entirely separate idealogies [url]http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-entertainment/201205/giving-feminism-bad-name[/url] [QUOTE]Let’s start with two simple questions: (1) Do you consider yourself to be a feminist, or not? (2) A feminist is someone who believes in social, political, and economic equality of the sexes. Do you think of yourself as a feminist or not? If you’re like many people from a study my RAs and I conducted recently and those polled by CBS News in 2005, then your answer to question one bore little resemblance to your answer to question two. In CBS’s nationwide random sample of 1,150 U.S. adults, 65% of women and 58% of men identified as feminist when an equal-rights definition was provided, but only 24% of women and 14% of men considered themselves feminist in the absence of a definition (Alfano, 2009, February 11). At first glance this is paradoxical. Why did nearly two-thirds of people polled consider themselves feminists in the presence of the definition but less than one-in-five do so when the definition was omitted? What is feminism other than the belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes? Regrettably to feminists like myself, far too many other feminists believe that being one means believing in far more than equality for women. These “gender feminists” cling to an ideologically driven, theoretically unsound, and empirically unsupported perspective on the origin and development of sex differences (Kuhle, 2012). To paraphrase New Jersey philosopher J. B. Jovi, they give feminism a bad name.[/QUOTE] It's not an extreme minority, it's a completely different and opposing idealogy that is being pushed and is extremely harmful to the point of hyjacking (or it has already hyjacked) the feminist movement. When 70% of people say they are not feminists but 65% of people believe there needs to be more equality, there's something obviously very wrong here. The problem is not with people but with the definition of the feminism movement itself.

I fucking love this lady, every time I see her she brings feminism to the table with amazing amounts of common sense and a realistic understanding of what's a problem, what isn't, and what's just petty and stupid which sounds simple but I feel like, even though I'm a feminist myself, feminism has become deluded in a lot of ways and we pay attention to a lot of shit that doesn't matter and go about feminism in completely stupid ways

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;46576334]Part of the real issue here is third wave feminism and how some schools of thought teach it and the academic environments that it thrives in don't create strong levels of self criticism on their own schools of thought. They're essentially professional echochambers and many of the people who attend these environments are going to be very much in a situation to be persuaded by that though they may not understand the full reasoning and arguments behind it. This creates a loud but weak group of people who support those ideas. And third wave feminism isn't purely terrible but it's largely weak.[/QUOTE] Third-wave feminism is ultimately a good thing in my eyes, not all women feel some collective sisterhood and obviously a focus on various cultures/the individual allows their various experiences to be heard - and of course the other issues the third-wave aims to tackle. But to be honest, I wouldn't even (typically) associate your modern "feminist" spouting rubbish on the internet with any possible flaws in third-wave feminism or academia either. It mainly comes down to idiots with a victim complex who spout out any old rubbish and claim it's for the sake of feminism, hence a lot of unfounded uproar about Matt Taylor's shirt.

[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;46576431]Third-wave feminism is ultimately a good thing in my eyes, not all women feel some collective sisterhood and obviously a focus on various cultures/the individual allows their various experiences to be heard - and of course the other issues the third-wave aims to tackle. But to be honest, I wouldn't even (typically) associate your modern "feminist" spouting rubbish on the internet with any possible flaws in third-wave feminism or academia either. It mainly comes down to idiots with a victim complex who spout out any old rubbish and claim it's for the sake of feminism, hence a lot of unfounded uproar about Matt Taylor's shirt.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Zyler;46576412]It's not really a minority of the more reasonable feminists, it's a major segregation of Gender Feminists and Equity Feminists with entirely separate idealogies [url]http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-entertainment/201205/giving-feminism-bad-name[/url] It's not an extreme minority, it's a completely different and opposing idealogy that is being pushed and is extremely harmful to the point of hyjacking (or it has already hyjacked) the feminist movement. When 70% of people say they are not feminists but 65% of people believe there needs to be more equality, there's something obviously very wrong here. The problem is not with people but with the definition of the feminism movement itself.[/QUOTE] To add on top: [url]http://kitiopia.wordpress.com/2013/05/27/steven-pinker-equity-feminism-vs-gender-feminism/[/url] [QUOTE]Feminism is often derided because of the arguments of its lunatic fringe — for example, that all intercourse is rape, that all women should be lesbians, or that only 10 percent of the population should be allowed to be male. Feminists reply that proponents of women’s rights do not speak with one voice, and that feminist thought comprises many positions, which have to be evaluated independently. That is completely legitimate, but it cuts both ways. To criticize a particular feminist proposal is not to attack feminism in general. Anyone familiar with academia knows that it breeds ideological cults that are prone to dogma and resistant to criticism. Many women believe that this has now happened to feminism. In her book Who Stole Feminism? the philosopher Christina Hoff Sommers draws a useful distinction between two schools of thought. Equity feminism opposes sex discrimination and other forms of unfairness to women. It is part of the classical liberal and humanistic tradition that grew out of the Enlightenment, and it guided the first wave of feminism and launched the second wave. Gender feminism holds that women continue to be enslaved by a pervasive system of male dominance, the gender system, in which “bi-sexual infants are transformed into male and female gender personalities, the one destined to command, the other to obey.” It is opposed to the classical liberal tradition and allied instead with Marxism, postmodernism, social constructionism, and radical science. It has became the credo of some women’s studies programs, feminist organizations, and spokespeople for the women’s movement. Equity feminism is a moral doctrine about equal treatment that makes no commitments regarding open empirical issues in psychology or biology. Gender feminism is an empirical doctrine committed to three claims about human nature. The first is that the differences between men and women have nothing to do with biology but are socially constructed in their entirety. The second is that humans possess a single social motive — power — and that social life can be understood only in terms of how it is exercised. The third is that human interactions arise not from the motives of people dealing with each other as individuals but from the motives of groups dealing with other groups — in this case, the male gender dominating the female gender.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]The difference between gender feminism and equity feminism accounts for the oft-reported paradox that most women do not consider themselves feminists (about 70 percent in 1997, up from about 60 percent a decade before), yet they agree with every major feminist position. The explanation is simple: the word “feminist” is often associated with gender feminism, but the positions in the polls are those of equity feminism. Faced with these signs of slipping support, gender feminists have tried to stipulate that only they can be considered the true advocates of women’s rights. For example, in 1992 Gloria Steinem said of Paglia, “Her calling herself a feminist is sort of like a Nazi saying they’re not anti-Semitic.” And they have invented a lexicon of epithets for what in any other area would be called disagreement: “backlash,” “not getting it,” “silencing women,” “intellectual harassment.” All this is an essential background to the discussions to come. To say that women and men do not have interchangeable minds, that people have desires other than power, and that motives belong to individual people and not just to entire genders is not to attack feminism or to compromise the interests of women, despite the misconception that gender feminism speaks in their name.[/QUOTE] "Third wave" feminism is a rather nebulous concept, the two easily definable branches are equity and gender based feminism.