You know, I was listening to the guy until 18:33 where he very quickly brought up GamerGate to highlight a "sexist" movement/thing in tech/gaming hobbies.
i think he missed the part where these are portrayed as negative traits, and it's their other traits and their attempts at self-improvement that are sympathetic
big bang theory is bad but it's not this kind of bad
and lampshade hanging is meant to be [I]funny[/I], not a political statement
[editline]5th September 2017[/editline]
like, the characters in big bang theory are poorly written, largely two dimensional stereotypes, yes
but it's just a harmlessly bad comedy show making dumb jokes about dumb things
nothing inherently wrong with that
[QUOTE=_charon;52651847]i think he missed the part where these are portrayed as negative traits, and it's their other traits and their attempts at self-improvement that are sympathetic
big bang theory is bad but it's not this kind of bad
and lampshade hanging is meant to be [I]funny[/I], not a political statement
[editline]5th September 2017[/editline]
like, the characters in big bang theory are poorly written, largely two dimensional stereotypes, yes
but it's just a harmlessly bad comedy show making dumb jokes about dumb things
nothing inherently wrong with that[/QUOTE]
That'd be fine but the point it makes is that the characters not only have these personality traits (that never really go away, just take new forms) but aren't punished and are instead consistently rewarded. Sheldon get's complimented and keeps his job, the boys all find love interests despite their actions, Howard gets an apology, Penny never gg's out of the group.
[editline]5th September 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=joshuadim;52651795]You know, I was listening to the guy until 18:33 where he very quickly brought up GamerGate to highlight a "sexist" movement/thing in tech/gaming hobbies.[/QUOTE]
Maybe at first it wasn't but by the end of GamerGate's lifespan it was little more than a platform for MRA's and what we would now call the alt-right. Milo got his start being a spokesperson for GG.
What a waste of time, editing this video.
this vidfeo is taking up internet space that could be used on dog pictures
[QUOTE=joshuadim;52651795]You know, I was listening to the guy until 18:33 where he very quickly brought up GamerGate to highlight a "sexist" movement/thing in tech/gaming hobbies.[/QUOTE]
You watched 18 minutes of this video and the gamergate thing is the first thing you thought was wrong?
[QUOTE=JeSuisIkea;52651897]That'd be fine but the point it makes is that the characters not only have these personality traits (that never really go away, just take new forms) but aren't punished and are instead consistently rewarded. Sheldon get's complimented and keeps his job, the boys all find love interests despite their actions, Howard gets an apology, Penny never gg's out of the group.
[editline]5th September 2017[/editline]
Maybe at first it wasn't but by the end of GamerGate's lifespan it was little more than a platform for MRA's and what we would now call the alt-right. Milo got his start being a spokesperson for GG.[/QUOTE]
I admittedly haven't watched enough of it to really know how the characters progress, but it seemed to me like the characters learned over time to be less creepy and those around them learned to be harder on them when they were being creeps. Howard treats wife-with-funny-voice-whose-name-I-forget better, Leonard starts treating nerdy-girl-I-also-forget and Penny as equals, Leonard learns to respect Penny more, etc.
Also by the end GamerGate was a massive fuckfest that had nothing to do with how it started and was little more than an excuse for a bunch of crazies to scream at each other and preach their respective extreme views
[editline]5th September 2017[/editline]
this is based entirely on me sometimes catching bits while other people were watching it, so i could be wrong
and again, don't get me wrong, the show is [I]bad[/I]
i just don't think it qualifies as bad on a society corrupting level
[QUOTE=_charon;52651924]I admittedly haven't watched enough of it to really know how the characters progress, but it seemed to me like the characters learned over time to be less creepy and those around them learned to be harder on them when they were being creeps. Howard treats wife-with-funny-voice-whose-name-I-forget better, Leonard starts treating nerdy-girl-I-also-forget and Penny as equals, Leonard learns to respect Penny more, etc.
Also by the end GamerGate was a massive fuckfest that had nothing to do with how it started and was little more than an excuse for a bunch of crazies to scream at each other and preach their respective extreme views
[editline]5th September 2017[/editline]
this is based entirely on me sometimes catching bits while other people were watching it, so i could be wrong
and again, don't get me wrong, the show is [I]bad[/I]
i just don't think it qualifies as bad on a society corrupting level[/QUOTE]
I've seen recent episodes and the show is now just Friends 2.0 with a ~tech-twist~
Each main character has a girlfriend; they all live together; they all bang (even the robotic guy) and none of them are socially awkward anymore.
you know who made this video right?
you know, the person who helped drive the story with strippers + hitman = misogyny.
you know, the person who's goal within making content is to have a "narrative within a narrative", meaning doesn't matter if I spin or lie as long as use the propaganda to drive a conniving story.
you know, the person who literally was named after full macintosh.
Again, the majority of Facepunch's reaction to the implication that sexism might be real and might also be reflected in our media is wholly disappointing.
Nobody's trying to take away your sitcoms guys, there's nothing wrong with thinking about this stuff.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Threadshitting - Dismissing everything and acting like your view is superior to everyone is not how you have a discussion, stop trying to bait responses" - Reagy))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Cyanlime;52652402]Again, the majority of Facepunch's reaction to the implication that sexism might be real and might also be reflected in our media is wholly disappointing.
Nobody's trying to take away your sitcoms guys, there's nothing wrong with thinking about this stuff.[/QUOTE]
sexism is real, and does get reflected in the media, yeah
but big bang theory isn't making it out to be a good thing, or even ok
nor does the awkward, sexually inept nerd cliche in general
edit: though now that you mention it i'd be totally ok if someone tried to take big bang theory away
[QUOTE=Cyanlime;52652402]Again, the majority of Facepunch's reaction to the implication that sexism might be real and might also be reflected in our media is wholly disappointing.
Nobody's trying to take away your sitcoms guys, there's nothing wrong with thinking about this stuff.[/QUOTE]
I don't think there are many Big Bang Theory fans on Facepunch considering it's a nerd forum.
If anyone hates BBT the most it's the people it supposedly portrays.
[QUOTE=Damjen;52652433]I don't think there are many Big Bang Theory fans on Facepunch considering it's a nerd forum.
If anyone hates BBT the most it's the people it supposedly portrays.[/QUOTE]
my dad likes it, I leave the room when he puts it on when I'm over. He said he likes it because it reminds him of people he knew during his college years.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;52651920]You watched 18 minutes of this video and the gamergate thing is the first thing you thought was wrong?[/QUOTE]
I watched, doesn't mean I agreed with what he was saying
A lot of what he said was just stupid
[QUOTE=Damjen;52652433]I don't think there are many Big Bang Theory fans on Facepunch considering it's a nerd forum.
If anyone hates BBT the most it's the people it supposedly portrays.[/QUOTE]
"Im going to go play Halo with my friend Joe..." Que obnoxious "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH" laugh track
BBT in a nutshell
He didn't really explain it well or anything but I get what he was saying.
Sitcoms take advantage of a mental trick. I feel like everybody knows that sitcoms work off the effect where episodes can be like "Teenage black trans woman struggling to come out in a 2017 high school" and you can relate even if none of that effects your life specifically, right? Like they're so ubiquitous because your brain will hear one line out the whole episode with some wisdom in it and go "fuck yea they get it"
I dont know if I agree with it or not, but the guy in the video is arguing that by using Leonard as a writers tool for things like morally centering the group and whatnot, they're setting up the image that nerds are at best "a Leonard." He should have said: Imagine being racist and there's a black character you like on a show. He does something negatively stereotypical, but later revealed to be perfectly morally justified for it (forced at gunpoint, if you will) so it isn't representative of any metrics even within the lore of the show. When you meet a character that gives you vibes of that character, you might think "Wow this guy is such a Leonard. and Leonard is a perv. Well, Leonard is redeemable, but thats cuz Leonard is dope. This guy[I]isn't[/I] Leonard. He's probably actually a perv"
Again, don't know if I agree with whether or not the show is guilty of this because I dont watch it (passed season like 2) but I get what he was trying to get at. That this show is potentially capable of leaving non-nerd viewers with the impression that when they get a facebook friend request from a guy and their first thought is "wow he's totally a sheldon" they might deny it using tv-show-based-anecdotes that guys like that are likely to push sexual boundaries.
To summarize, He's saying this show is calling neckbeards pervy. Which it is. But he's saying it's super bad and nobody can tell the difference which I'm saying is technically plausible while not likely.
[QUOTE=Cyanlime;52652402]Again, the majority of Facepunch's reaction to the implication that sexism might be real and might also be reflected in our media is wholly disappointing.[/QUOTE]
lmao this is such a dismissive thing to post, it reeks of pretension.
"ah of course, facepunch HATES women again. classic, better post that the MAJORITY OF FACEPUNCH hates women! haha! this website has [I]never[/I] [I]ever[/I] had a discussion on sex, feminism and gender roles. nope. not one single person has already discussed these topics and has already formed an opinion. nope. no way. the only reason people are shitting over this video is because THEY'RE SEXISTS!"
"silly facepunch. learn what sexism means."
basically this video is trash and expecting us to be having some valid discussion on gender roles in society in it's comments is laughable.
[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;52652655]lmao this is such a dismissive thing to post, it reeks of pretension.
"ah of course, facepunch HATES women again. classic, better post that the MAJORITY OF FACEPUNCH hates women! haha! this website has [I]never[/I] [I]ever[/I] had a discussion on sex, feminism and gender roles. nope. not one single person has already discussed these topics and has already formed an opinion. nope. no way. the only reason people are shitting over this video is because THEY'RE SEXISTS!"
"silly facepunch. learn what sexism means."
basically this video is trash and expecting us to be having some valid discussion on gender roles in society in it's comments is laughable.[/QUOTE]
No, it is not pretension, its a real observation of a general tendency on this forum. I see it often as I lurk here. It seems as though the typical reaction to feminist content, especially content pertaining to certain buzzwords like "misogyny" and the like, are quite easily dismissed or scoffed at based on preconceived notions of its material. It almost seems as if the movement in general has been stigmatized based on a few extreme examples of its followers. Never did he say that facepunch hates women.
The video at hand and even the creator may not be the best example of presenting this topic, but its ideas are solid. The portrayal of this type of character, and simply the portrayal of women in cinema over the centuries, has often been one dimensional and quite distant from reality. Let's be honest, the entertainment industry, and most industries in general, have traditionally been male dominated, so it is sensible that this sort of distortion could be commonplace. To have these archetypal male characters engage in such behavior that normalizes things like sexual harassment is quite gut wrenching to me. You may write it off as a joke, but that undermines the general trope of this behavior in television / cinema that has spanned several years.
I know this isn't true for all of facepunch, I'm not trying to generalize the good people here. I just wish other men were more open to the ideas and concepts of feminism. It isn't out to get you or displace you, it is well meaning, comprehensive and inclusive. Those made extreme and angered are coming from a genuine concern for our overall society, despite how bombastic they appear.
[QUOTE=Solidskei;52652749]No, it is not pretension, its a real observation of a general tendency on this forum. I see it often as I lurk here. It seems as though the typical reaction to feminist content, especially content pertaining to certain buzzwords like "misogyny" and the like, are quite easily dismissed or scoffed at based on preconceived notions of its material.[/QUOTE]
Because the content that is often posted here is [I]trash.[/I] This is not a forum focused on gender issues, so you're not going to find genuine discussions of that here. Most of the time you're going to find people posting trash content and trashing on it (like what happens here and with most of buzzfeeds stuff), or you're going to find a few nuggets of genuinely insightful conversation that, shockingly, paints the members of facepunch as something other than a women-hating hivemind.
If you can send me a thread on this forum where a well thought out, valid piece of discussion was shot down by that darn sexist facepunch hivemind, then please do.
[editline]6th September 2017[/editline]
btw no one is saying feminism was out to displace them, or anything of the sort. your unprovoked spiel at the end about how you want more men to be feminists is super out of place and goes to speak about preconceived notions you, yourself, carry.
[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;52652762]Because the content that is often posted here is [I]trash.[/I] This is not a forum focused on gender issues, so you're not going to find genuine discussions of that here. Most of the time you're going to find people posting trash content and trashing on it (like what happens here and with most of buzzfeeds stuff), or you're going to find a few nuggets of genuinely insightful conversation that, shockingly, paints the members of facepunch as something other than a women-hating hivemind.
If you can send me a thread on this forum where a well thought out, valid piece of discussion was shot down by that darn sexist facepunch hivemind, then please do.[/QUOTE]
This is a video game forum, yet discussions of all different forms appear in every area of this place. Again, no one ever claimed facepunch was a woman-hating hivemind. I simply do not understand the underlying hostility. What exactly is "trash" about this video for example? What about its underlying arguments lack validity? I'm honestly curious.
I'm not trying to be condescending to you, I'm sorry if my tone presents that. I am not attempting to urge people to join a movement, just to be more open to ideas that I often see dismissed. Not just here, but generally.
You missed my point. This is a video game forum with other, unrelated discussions occurring on the side. It goes without saying that those smaller unrelated discussions are of course not going to have the depth or the tact as they could have in a different environment.
This video is an analysis on a show that is overwhelmingly lamented as being one of the worst, bottom of the barrel sitcoms out there. An analysis on how it handles misogyny is not only not productive, but is giving the show [I]way[/I] too much credit when it's always had an awful, [I]awful[/I] problem with stereotypes and misrepresentation.
Basically, all of that he said? Could have gone without saying. It's the least of the show's problems. The show is trash, therefore a kneejerk reaction to analytical content is that, well, it is trash as well. Whether or not that's valid is a different discussion to be had, because regardless my point remains the same.
Using the reaction to this video in order to paint some sort of damning judgement on facepunch? Completely unfair. I don't care how many times you're insisting "[I]I know it's not everyone![/I]", it doesn't sound that different to "[I]Not all men![/I]" at this point. And honestly, I think I speak for the majority of users on facepunch when I say I'm tired of having and seeing this exact conversation I'm having now, where I need to explain that it is indeed unfair to generalize an entire websites population.
If you want to talk about how often or rarely feminism is dismissed in public discourse, choose a better medium than a facepunch thread on a video by someone we all hate on a show we all hate.
That is reasonable. I know little about the content creator, and to chose such a sitcom for close examination would seem redundant. However, I see him discussing a trope common in many forms of television and media, not just exclusively the show itself. The very popular and influential movies he lists at the beginning highlight a lot of where this type of character began, and how its evolved in the medium through the decades.
And honestly I'd give facepunch more credit. I've seen outstandingly in depth and insightful conversations occur here over a multitude of different topics. There are many brilliant people here, and reading with them as they delve into these exchanges has given me a lot of good information. Whether it be science, politics, religion, or else wise. I've learned a lot about several different things.
And you're correct, it is never good to generalize a group of people.
[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;52652803]You missed my point. This is a video game forum with other, unrelated discussions occurring on the side. It goes without saying that those smaller unrelated discussions are of course not going to have the depth or the tact as they could have in a different environment.
This video is an analysis on a show that is overwhelmingly lamented as being one of the worst, bottom of the barrel sitcoms out there. An analysis on how it handles misogyny is not only not productive, but is giving the show [I]way[/I] too much credit when it's always had an awful, [I]awful[/I] problem with stereotypes and misrepresentation.
Basically, all of that he said? Could have gone without saying. It's the least of the show's problems. The show is trash, therefore a kneejerk reaction to analytical content is that, well, it is trash as well. Whether or not that's valid is a different discussion to be had, because regardless my point remains the same.
Using the reaction to this video in order to paint some sort of damning judgement on facepunch? Completely unfair. I don't care how many times you're insisting "[I]I know it's not everyone![/I]", it doesn't sound that different to "[I]Not all men![/I]" at this point. And honestly, I think I speak for the majority of users on facepunch when I say I'm tired of having and seeing this exact conversation I'm having now, where I need to explain that it is indeed unfair to generalize an entire websites population.
If you want to talk about how often or rarely feminism is dismissed in public discourse, choose a better medium than a facepunch thread on a video by someone we all hate on a show we all hate.[/QUOTE]
Here you're essentially using 'It's a video game forum, get over it' as an excuse to have a knee-jerk reaction to a pretty inoffensive video.
Sure, the Big Bang Theory may be shit, but that doesn't make it irrelevant. On the contrary, it's actually been one of the most popular television shows for a while now (though believe me, I'll never understand why).
Surely it's not a stretch to say that analyzing one of the most watched TV shows in the western world might be an interesting way to explore our culture a bit?
Maybe this isn't the kind of content you come to Facepunch for, but getting upset about it and deriding anyone who actually does find this kind of thing interesting doesn't really do anything to improve our situation here.
I probably worded my first post a bit poorly. I don't think a majority of Facepunch is sexist, hell, I don't think a majority is stupid or ignorant. I just find the tendency of some people here toward getting outraged about any critique of our culture or how it's reflected in our media a bit frustrating.
[QUOTE=_charon;52651924]I admittedly haven't watched enough of it to really know how the characters progress, but it seemed to me like the characters learned over time to be less creepy and those around them learned to be harder on them when they were being creeps. Howard treats wife-with-funny-voice-whose-name-I-forget better, Leonard starts treating nerdy-girl-I-also-forget and Penny as equals, Leonard learns to respect Penny more, etc.
Also by the end GamerGate was a massive fuckfest that had nothing to do with how it started and was little more than an excuse for a bunch of crazies to scream at each other and preach their respective extreme views
[editline]5th September 2017[/editline]
this is based entirely on me sometimes catching bits while other people were watching it, so i could be wrong
and again, don't get me wrong, the show is [I]bad[/I]
i just don't think it qualifies as bad on a society corrupting level[/QUOTE]
I don't think he's saying TBBT is corrupting society, I think he's using it as an example to show the misogynistic stereotypes we let go and points out the darker side to nerd culture that doesn't get pointed out, no matter the lampshading.
[QUOTE=Cyanlime;52652868]
Sure, the Big Bang Theory may be shit, but that doesn't make it irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
Actually it really does because no one here watches it.
[quote]The Adorkable Misogyny of The Big Bang Theory[/quote]
It's like every word in the title was designed to annoy me.
[QUOTE=Cyanlime;52652402]Again, the majority of Facepunch's reaction to the implication that sexism might be real and might also be reflected in our media is wholly disappointing.
Nobody's trying to take away your sitcoms guys, there's nothing wrong with thinking about this stuff.[/QUOTE]
Can we get a show of hands of who actually gives a rats ass about Big Bang theory?
It has nothing to do with someone trying to take away "our sitcom", infact please do
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;52652916]Can we get a show of hands of who actually gives a rats ass about Big Bang theory?
It has nothing to do with someone trying to take away "our sitcom", infact please do[/QUOTE]
I think there's a bit more going on here than people just not caring about The Big Bang Theory.
[QUOTE=Cyanlime;52652962]I think there's a bit more going on here than people just not caring about The Big Bang Theory.[/QUOTE]
No, there isn't.
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