The Spartan Myth - General - Facepunch Forum

Just saw this and found it super interesting. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMQmU0epVr4[/media]

I always thought that anyone with even a mild hint of interest in history would read up on the battle of Thermopylae and realize they were far from alone in the fighting there. That and they never actually held a particularly large 'empire' should've attested to just about everything through common logic.

The funniest part about becoming a tourist attraction under Rome is that the Romans still deployed them against the Persians in the Parthian wars. They were effectively historical LARPers being put into battle.

Not only that, but supposedly they kept up as the whole Spartan thing for tourists way until the end of the Empire. Back when the West fell and the East was hanging on by a thread Germanic tribes began to raze their way through Greece. The story goes that with the Eastern Roman Army hiding behind the walls of Major cities there was no one to oppose them, so a group of Spartan re-enactors decided to hell with it and face them themselves. Wearing imitation Spartan gear and using ancient Spartan tactics or their imitation there of they managed to defeat a pillaging band of Germans and send them running out of Greece. It is technically the very last mention of the Spartans. (It also should be noted that not long after a band of proto-slavs finally did them in once and for all)

There's something nice about getting the record set straight. In middle school we had to watch some History Channel documentary on the Spartans that boasted how great they were, so it's interesting to see the truth.

[QUOTE=Captain Kep;52889128] The story goes that with the Eastern Roman Army hiding behind the walls of Major cities there was no one to oppose them, so a group of Spartan re-enactors decided to hell with it and face them themselves. Wearing imitation Spartan gear and using ancient Spartan tactics or their imitation there of they managed to defeat a pillaging band of Germans and send them running out of Greece. [/QUOTE] ...that is pretty hardcore.

[QUOTE=Hey I'm Grump;52889275]There's something nice about getting the record set straight. In middle school we had to watch some History Channel documentary on the Spartans that boasted how great they were, so it's interesting to see the truth.[/QUOTE] It pains me to remember the way ancient Greek history was taught to me in school. Essentially, we learned about the Greek religious beliefs, read The Odyssey, and then finished up by [del]learning about[/del] hearing the Spartan Myths. Never learned about Greek mathematical accomplishments, astronomy discoveries, ancient computing methods, or anything like that. What the hell??

Our history class focused on their politics, culture and philosophy

For those interested in the spartan internal structure [video]https://youtu.be/ppGCbh8ggUs[/video]

Did a location exist in the ancient world which did not have slaves or deemed slavery to be morally wrong?

[QUOTE=genkaz92;52890572]Did a location exist in the ancient world which did not have slaves or deemed slavery to be morally wrong?[/QUOTE] Perhaps ancient India, although it's unclear: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_India#Slavery_in_Ancient_India[/url] [QUOTE]There is evidence of the existence of slavery or personal circumstances resembling slavery and bonded-servitude since ancient times however its study is complicated due to various factors.[1] The term dāsa and dāsyu in Vedic and other ancient Indian literature has also been translated as "slave", but other scholars have translated it as "servant", its current meaning, or as "religious devotee", and as other abstract concepts depending on context.[2][3] Ancient historians who visited India offer the closest linguistic equivalence in Indian society and slavery in other ancient civilizations.[citation needed] [b]The Greek historian Arrian wrote in his Indika, that Megasthenes describes that all Indians were free and no one was a slave. He further stated that the Lakedaemonians hold Helots as slaves who do servile labour, however the Indians do not use aliens as slaves, much less a countryman of their own.[8][non-primary source needed][/b][/QUOTE] Also India did/still has a strict caste system, so I don't know how much this counts. It could simply be said that they had a different kind of slavery to the rest of the world. Cyrus The Great, the founder of the Persian Empire, may have temporially allowed some captured slaves to go free and return to their homeland, although this is also somewhat dubious and quite possibly exaggerated/politically motivated and so not based on moral qualms. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great[/url] [QUOTE][b]Cyrus was praised in the Tanakh (Isaiah 45:1–6 and Ezra 1:1–11) for the freeing of slaves, humanitarian equality and costly reparations he made.[/b] However, there was Jewish criticism of him after he was lied to by the Cuthites, who wanted to halt the building of the Second Temple. They accused the Jews of conspiring to rebel, so Cyrus in turn stopped the construction, which would not be completed until 515 BC, during the reign of Darius I.[107][108] According to the Bible it was King Artaxerxes who was convinced to stop the construction of the temple in Jerusalem. (Ezra 4:7–24) The historical nature of this decree has been challenged. [b]Professor Lester L Grabbe argues that there was no decree but that there was a policy that allowed exiles to return to their homelands and rebuild their temples. He also argues that the archaeology suggests that the return was a "trickle", taking place over perhaps decades, resulting in a maximum population of perhaps 30,000.[109][/b] Philip R. Davies called the authenticity of the decree "dubious", citing Grabbe and adding that J. Briend argued against "the authenticity of Ezra 1.1–4 is J. Briend, in a paper given at the Institut Catholique de Paris on 15 December 1993, who denies that it resembles the form of an official document but reflects rather biblical prophetic idiom."[110] Mary Joan Winn Leith believes that the decree in Ezra might be authentic and along with the Cylinder that Cyrus, like earlier rules, was through these decrees trying to gain support from those who might be strategically important, particularly those close to Egypt which he wished to conquer. He also wrote that "appeals to Marduk in the cylinder and to Yahweh in the biblical decree demonstrate the Persian tendency to co-opt local religious and political traditions in the interest of imperial control."[111][/QUOTE] Essentially, it was a one time thing where he let a small number of slaves return home because he wanted to conquer Egypt and needed to get in the good graces of potential allies- he didn't do it because he or the society he lived in had moral issues with slavery. Some places, like Athens, got rid of Debt Slavery (which was when a person who couldn't pay back a loan got enslaved to the person who gave them the loan) and so didn't enslave their own people. However, pretty much every culture enslaved people that they conquered in neighbouring cultures/countries/citystates.

[QUOTE=Zyler;52892283]Perhaps ancient India, although it's unclear: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_India#Slavery_in_Ancient_India[/url][/QUOTE] Thank you for the informative post, it is unfortunate to hear that slavery may have indeed been omnipresent in one way or another back then. It is possible that there were exceptions on a much more local scale than entire countries, but that would probably be nitpicking.

[QUOTE=genkaz92;52890572]Did a location exist in the ancient world which did not have slaves or deemed slavery to be morally wrong?[/QUOTE] Ancient Egypt didn't have many slaves.

[QUOTE=genkaz92;52890572]Did a location exist in the ancient world which did not have slaves or deemed slavery to be morally wrong?[/QUOTE] In the Persian religion Zoroastrianism slavery is one of the worst sins possible. But a lot of Zoroastrian nations still had slaves.