[video=youtube;2m4SCUaBHS8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m4SCUaBHS8[/video]
Well, that explains a lot.
How cares, it's a game
The guy takes it way to seriously
If he wants to talk about how badly Russia is portrayed in video games he should really turn his attention to the Modern Warfare series.
[QUOTE=Nanamil;41675328]How cares, it's a game
The guy takes it way to seriously[/QUOTE]
it's a successful game that attempts to tell the russians side of the story in WWII
i think it matters if they were historically inaccurate.
He's way too nitpicky. Like when he was talking about the part where the game says Stalin sent troops to die but gets his panties in a bunch because the English, Americans, and Germans did the same thing but the game didn't mention it. Like what the hell, do you expect the game to just throw that tidbit of info in there?
"Stalin sent in thousands of troops to die but like so did the Americans and English and Nazis just not over here in Russia but I just thought you'd like to know anyway"
[QUOTE=Cabbage;41675370]If he wants to talk about how badly Russia is portrayed in video games he should really turn his attention to the Modern Warfare series.[/QUOTE]
CoD never said they're historically accurate and all that
One thing i'd like to point out is that he thinks just because it's historically inaccurate he thinks they did it on purpose because it's a "NAZI GAME". What a moron, what if they were just wrong?
Claiming that the developers are trying to push a nazi agenda is a bit far-fetched, but holy shit Russians in this game look ridiculously stereotypical.
There's nothing wrong with stereotypical B-movie-esque games, but that's clearly not what Relic was trying to make here.
[QUOTE=Episode;41675658]One thing i'd like to point out is that he thinks just because it's historically inaccurate he thinks they did it on purpose because it's a "NAZI GAME". What a moron, what if they were just wrong?[/QUOTE]
Yeah but you can see that they are only focusing on what the Soviets did, not on what the Nazis did. There was a pretty huge bias against the soviets and how they were portrayed. Especially for a game series that is trying to pride itself in being historically accurate.
Don't russians wanna play rust anyways?
Good. Now let's come up with other ways to insult Russians out of other games so we can go back to having fun again.
It's not just a stereotype is it? They just take games so seriously whenever I come across them.
My god, this is shameful of the writers and devs for not opposing it.
[QUOTE=Memobot;41676234]Good. Now let's come up with other ways to insult Russians out of other games so we can go back to having fun again.
It's not just a stereotype is it? They just take games so seriously whenever I come across them.[/QUOTE]
The game is presented as something serious and historically accurate, using description of actual events and quotes. Why shouldn't it be taken seriously? Just because it's a game and not a film?
Wow, that's terrible. Glad I haven't bought this now.
Why does he keep referring to the Germans as Nazis, rather than the werchmant which were the actual army, consisting of Germans who like everyone else thought their country was right and did it to be patriotic, or perhaps forced into it. The Nazis were the political figures who did the work in the extermination camps, and only occasionally showed their place on the battlefield.
And he's got his panties in a twist because the Russians are shed in a bad light and the Germans were shown to be in fact not demons wearing human skin, but humans who actually had emotions.
The plot in games like Red Alert or even CoD is fictional and everybody understand it.
CoH2 says it's historically accurate to the max. That's the problem here.
And this is some real reason to dislike the game.
Remember Homefront?
[QUOTE=Wiki]The antagonists in Homefront were originally intended to be the communist Chinese, but were later replaced by a unified Korea for two reasons: the risk of a possible backlash by the Chinese Ministry of Culture and the reality of economic interdependence between America and China that made the Chinese "not that scary," according to Tae Kim, a former CIA field agent and consultant on the game's backstory.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much similar issue, but a bit worse.
I don't think Company of heroes has ever claimed they were historically accurate to the max. Cause they aren't, it's an arcade RTS. A fun one.
i think relic just tried to hard to get an interesting narrative and really sacrificed a lot of integrity in the process. unfortunate, considering how little the campaign's story matters to most players.
[editline]1st August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Aman;41677933]I don't think Company of heroes has ever claimed they were historically accurate to the max. Cause they aren't, it's an arcade RTS. A fun one.[/QUOTE]
in the videos there are various screenshots of them claiming they accurate and balanced in their depictions of events
Don't take everything he says as truth, he seems to know about as much truth of the matter as the game developers he's attacking
I can't believe he compared Order 227 and the influence of the NKVD to American and Canadian military law. It's almost as if he WANTS to justify what they did.
Ignoring the fact it looks like he took the figure of all branches of service for the Soviet Union, which would encompass non-combat units, I can only say I'm left lost to his point. Congratulations, you ONLY executed 0.4% of your entire armed forces. Totally acceptable. Shame on him for trying to downplay it.
He claims Russian troops would never have been shot by their own machine guns. In Stalingrad, militia special brigades, largely made up of workers from factories in Northern Stalingrad, were blocked by groups of well-armed Komsomol volunteer and NKVD detachments placed behind them to prevent retreat. The 124th Special brigade had a second line of "Komsomol members armed with machine guns and machine pistols".
A divisional commander in the 64th Rifle Division took to the Roman punishment of decimation, he formed the unfortunate units up and shot every 10th man through the head until "his magazine was empty".
It doesn't end there. Marshall Zhukov implemented Order No. 227 on the western front in 1942, tanks were used to follow the first wave of an attack ready to '"combat cowardice" by opening fire on any soldiers who wavered'.
Other historical facts he tries to expand on are debatable and taken into poor context
Now, I'm not defending the campaign. I haven't played CoH2's campaign and from the few clips in the video it does seem to have flaws and he does have some valid points. I'm more irritated by the video's creator's nitpicking, lackluster comparisons and downright ridiculous accusations of the game developers (Nazis) which end up coming off as lazy, petty, offensive and frankly displaying a poor level of understanding.
[QUOTE=Nanamil;41675328]How cares, it's a game
The guy takes it way to seriously[/QUOTE]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Cleansing_(video_game)]Ethnic Cleansing[/url]. Who cares, it's just a game right?
Wow thats fucked.
What the hell were the writers thinking?
-piss-
the problem is, like the original company of heroes, the germans were painted as simply "the other guys we're shooting at". there's no evidence of the germans committing ANY war crimes in the game, yet CoH2 is basically about soviet war crimes. it's almost as if the game was made to paint the germans in a good light, and the soviets in a horrific one.
just for the sake of understanding my point, imagine if you had NO knowledge of WW2 at all. look at CoH2, who would you say the bad guys are? the guys you're simply fighting, or the guys that are burning civilians and friendly soldiers alike and executing soldiers for no reason at all but to inspire fear? calling relic "reich" and the sons of goebbels is retarded, but still.
imagine if there was a game about the invasion of iraq, where you control soldiers who routinely snap and go on entire massacres, predator drone strikes decimate families, and the infamous "striker kill squad". additionally, there's no mention of the slaughter of kurds, WMDs, or US soldiers getting captured and tortured. you think there wouldn't be a similar reaction?
there's a reason WW2 is called the "Great Patriotic War" in Russia
[QUOTE=Inspector N;41680370]I'm more irritated by the video's creator's nitpicking, lackluster comparisons and downright ridiculous accusations of the game developers (Nazis) which end up coming off as lazy, petty, offensive and frankly displaying a poor level of understanding.[/QUOTE]
You're misunderstanding his statement.
He's not actually saying the devs are literally Nazis, he's stating their game continues the history of German propaganda against the Russians.
Not literal Nazis, but distorting the truth like the Nazis.
The rise of Men of War begins! Seriously MoW is a great game.
When he mentions burning down houses with Russian civilians still inside, I definitely agree with that.
Seriously, why would they kill their own civilians needlessly, and why would the civilians still be in the buildings at that stage of the mission, after like, 10 minutes of fighting?
Well you can tell this guy is not a history major.
Attributing the harsh winter to stereotypes is kind of not a really good idea, considering that fall/winter of 1941 really was very cold and snowy. In fact, it was the harshest winter of a decade. Just like the spring/summer of 1943 - the most hot and dry of the decade.
I have some... issues with CoH2 singleplayer campaign as well though. It's not historical inaccuracies (though Relic could've held their mouths shut about it being this way), but more like inconsistencies with the previous games.
I find it quite strange how first game and it's addons ignored the concept of "war crimes" at all. All there was - bravery, comradery, and so on. While I agree that it made characters a bit of a cardboard cutouts, that's still an RTS. Everyone is a hero because who wants a player to feel disgust for the side he's playing for? Germans, British, US, all heroes. What is really happening, the Relic left all politics and stuff out of CoH and concentrated solely on what's fun and why we play RTS - warfare.
This, however, is not the case with CoH2. Game's singleplayer is crawling with the most overused tropes and cliches, and that can solely be attributed to there being too much politics. What Relic seemingly didn't understand, is that politics is something NOT FUN. Any talk of history like that in a serious manner sparks controversy. You simply can't talk about it without others having the impression of you pushing one agenda or another. It's no rocket science here!
I have a hard time comprehending how Relic could understand this simple concept that with CoH, but then suddenly forget it with CoH2.
More so, they made a mistake you should avoid at all costs. CoH2 SP only shows us a story of one side. And that sparks yet another controvercy and reaffirms the impression of agenda. If you tell us a story of Soviet Union commiting war crimes left and right, then [b]show us why[/b] they do that.
In the game we only see Churkin as a representative of an opposing view point, and script writers place him clearly in the wrong. He speaks of Germans comitting crimes and fate of the motherland and Soviet people being under threat, but the actual game shows us that the only threat there is - Order 227 and NKVD, and that's just because they want to kill people. Sooo, were there any Germans comitting crimes? Or has Churkin-Stalin just make it up to justify their insane Khornate bloodlust?
Why not let Soviet soldiers past the bridge and blow it up when German tank will move over it? Just because. Why shoot German soldier who's trying to surrender? Maybe because Russian army is just as starving as German army at Stalingrad, and more people to feed is an awful burden? Nope. Just because. Everything that looks even close to warcrime goes like this. Russians are just naturally this bad?
The game tryes to get over it's head with a plot like that. You shouldn't make player physically sick of side he picked (in case with CoH2, you don't have a choice, as with CoHv). But that's precisely what happens with CoH2 and a lot of Russian players. That's alienating at it's worst. Accidental, I give them that, they just have bad writers.
While I'm at it, I can present and example of how it should be done if you really-really want to go for that gritty stuff, warcrimes and shit, the horrible underside of all the heroics in WW2. Call of Duty: World at War. For any horrible thing commited by Russian, there're two horrible deeds by German. Oh, my god, that one actually had... holy shit. Perspective! Motivation!
[editline]2nd August 2013[/editline]
And why Russians in this game say "Leftenant" in a British manner. It's as far from Russian as it can get. Leutenant is лейтенант, pronounced "ley-te-n[b]a[/b]nt".
[QUOTE=Killerjc;41680972]just for the sake of understanding my point, imagine if you had NO knowledge of WW2 at all. look at CoH2, who would you say the bad guys are? the guys you're simply fighting, or the guys that are burning civilians and friendly soldiers alike and executing soldiers for no reason at all but to inspire fear? calling relic "reich" and the sons of goebbels is retarded, but still.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure if that's what you were saying here, but a historical game/film should never have 'good guys' and 'bad guys'. Demonising German soldiers and portraying them as the bad guys would be just as bad.
Kind of sad that this game holds a 1.6 on metacritic for user score.
Some people might be on the fence about it, but be completely turned off because 90% of these reviews ignore the actual game entirely and just focus on it's inaccuracy.
[editline]2nd August 2013[/editline]
[quote]AlexeyOrel Campaign scenario was written by Joseph Goebbels fans. It would be nice to come up with a time machine and send the writer's childrens in Nazi concentration camps.[/quote]
I mean JESUS
NKVD is portrayed weird in this game, i'm getting a lot of wh40k vibe from it
They genuinely scared people in the fucking 1930s, nobody gave a shit about them when the war began
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