There Are Only 2 Genders | Change My Mind - Louder With Crowder - General

[media]https://youtu.be/WtftZPL-k7Y[/media] The last conversation/person was easily the best conversation to be had. Even seemed like the crowd resonated well to that discourse.

It astounds me how many conservative dumbasses out there don't understand the difference between fucking sex and gender [editline]5th December 2017[/editline] This isn't that complicated

Crowder needs a content cop, I bet the dude has more dirt under his nails than Mitt Romney has binders full of women.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52950323]It astounds me how many conservative dumbasses out there don't understand the difference between fucking sex and gender [editline]5th December 2017[/editline] This isn't that complicated[/QUOTE] [url]https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/gender[/url] gender is based on sex so says the medical dictionaries.

[QUOTE=Ithon;52950359][url]https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/gender[/url] gender is based on sex so says the medical dictionaries.[/QUOTE] Just because a website has the words "medical" and "dictionary" in its URL does not mean it is a legitimate source of information on the lexicology of medical terms.

[QUOTE=Ithon;52950359][URL]https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/gender[/URL] gender is based on sex so says the medical dictionaries.[/QUOTE] did you actually just type "gender definition" into google and combed through the results until one satisfied you

[QUOTE=Ithon;52950359][url]https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/gender[/url] gender is based on sex so says the medical dictionaries.[/QUOTE] Not sure why i bother replying but here you go [quote]1. Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female.[/quote] [url]https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/gender[/url]

[QUOTE=Ithon;52950359][url]https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/gender[/url] gender is based on sex so says the medical dictionaries.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]1 the classification of the sex of a person into male, female, or ambivalent. 2 the specific sex of a person. See also sex.[/QUOTE] Cool I'm glad your source agrees with me.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52950380]Cool I'm glad your source agrees with me.[/QUOTE] Funion missed a great sass opportunity tbh. [quote]The sex with which a person identifies him- or herself.[/quote] [quote]Sex; one's personal, social, and legal status as ♂ or ♀, based on body and behavior, not on genital and/or erotic criteria. See Gender-identity/role.[/quote] His source basically gives multiple definitions from various medical sources. Some of which are incompatible with each-other. If you actually read papers you'll notice that when it comes to terms like this they'll quite often take time to specify how they're using ambiguous language for clarity purposes. And even if you try to just have gender and sex be fully interchangeable and refer to classifications based on reproductive function, that doesn't actually achieve the purposes of scientifically discrediting trans/NB people. Because all it is a word, but what "gender is not sex" people are trying to do is use it to explain a psychological and sociological phenomenon of behavior. That phenomenon doesn't go away just because lexical gaps exist.

Hey like, Tudd, why would you post and explicitly agree with this video? Just to disparage any nonbinary people happening to see this thread or something? Human identity is the most subjective thing in the world. It's why we have different languages, cultures, etc. Don't look at gender through an objectivist lens based on a flawed interpretation of biology; the anthropological view is far more informative.

It genuinely saddens me that there's a massive market for this shit online.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52950385]Funion missed a great sass opportunity tbh. [/QUOTE] dude these people embarass themselves enough it's like when youre a kid and you have toys and even though you know they are unintelligent inanimate objects sometimes you just talk to them anyways to see what happens

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52950323]It astounds me how many conservative dumbasses out there don't understand the difference between fucking sex and gender[/QUOTE] It isn't just conservatives.

[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;52950388]Hey like, Tudd, why would you post and explicitly agree with this video? Just to disparage any nonbinary people happening to see this thread or something?.[/QUOTE] He's emulating Trumps behavior of posting white supremacy videos, while claiming to be the "victim" when people call him out for his absurd and hateful beliefs. [editline]5th December 2017[/editline] [i]SAD![/i]

Modern bigots are too cowardly to express their real views so they present themselves as intellectuals and free speech purists. People like Tudd are just stupid enough or dishonest enough to fall for it and spread the propaganda.

[QUOTE=cbb;52950430]Modern bigots are too cowardly to express their real views so they present themselves as intellectuals and free speech purists. People like Tudd are just stupid enough or dishonest enough to fall for it and spread the propaganda.[/QUOTE] I think part of it is because the whole idea of gender being fluid is new to them and they were raised being taught that sex and gender are the same thing. When someone like that gets older it's really difficult to change their view, even if it's really simple.

On this topic, if anyone isn't entirely sold on the criticisms of the community Crowder is part of and also the whole gender identity thing I'd suggest you watch this video. It's not entirely related, he talks about the gender stuff specifically from about 20 mins onward, but I'd suggest the entire thing. The gender expression part does basically gimp Crowder's perspective completely, but I think the wider issue at play isn't just their take on gender but how they process information and rationalise their world view. Hbomberguy does an amazing job in this video basically completely tearing down how these people think, and having just been exposed to a 50 minute long video called "change my mind" where no minds are changed I think it's important we think about that. [video]https://youtu.be/dklVypazQsA[/video]

[QUOTE=nerdster409;52950460]I think part of it is because the whole idea of gender being fluid is new to them and they were raised being taught that sex and gender are the same thing. When someone like that gets older it's really difficult to change their view, even if it's really simple.[/QUOTE] I don't disagree with your premise but that doesn't make them any less bigoted and they don't get to use that as an excuse to discriminate towards other people.

[QUOTE=Berman Slick;52950474]The issue is, don't make it legally objective[/QUOTE] When you say, "Make it legally objective" what exactly are you talking about?

Next time on Louder with Crowder: "Traps are gay | Change my mind"

[QUOTE=nerdster409;52950460]I think part of it is because the whole idea of gender being fluid is new to them and they were raised being taught that sex and gender are the same thing. When someone like that gets older it's really difficult to change their view, even if it's really simple.[/QUOTE] As a young person it took me some time to come to grips with these ideas, at uni I ended up making friends with some trans and non binary people, and became more understanding of all this stuff. The difference is that I didn't understand these concepts before because they didn't effect my life in the slightest, I never gave them any thought. However, if I was at the point where my entire living hinged on ranting about this shit, I'd probably take the time to know a little more. Crowder is not any more informed than 16 year old me was, difference is while 16 year old me had just literally never given it any thought whatsoever, Crowder is making his career off of it. To the thousands of people watching this it's the same for them, you'd think they'd just do a little bit of research if they're willing to watch 50 minutes of content about it. The status quo is only an excuse if you're uninformed, and if you're watching or making 50 minute YouTube videos ranting about this shit then you don't have any excuse to be uniformed.

[QUOTE=cbb;52950470]I don't disagree with your premise but that doesn't make them any less bigoted and they don't get to use that as an excuse to discriminate towards other people.[/QUOTE] Are you saying believing that there are just two genders makes you a bigot?

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;52950492]Next time on Louder with Crowder: "Traps are gay | Change my mind"[/QUOTE] I feel like with this guy it would be "Traps are not gay | Guys I'm not gay"

[QUOTE=nerdster409;52950502]Are you saying believing that there are just two genders makes you a bigot?[/QUOTE] Yes. It's just as disparaging as believing that black people are less than human. In some ways it might be even worse because it implies that non-cis people do not exist, that they are mentally unstable for identifying outside the norm.

Also Tudd fuck off, this is actually harmful. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Kiwi))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=nerdster409;52950502]Are you saying believing that there are just two genders makes you a bigot?[/QUOTE] Maybe! I think it makes you incorrect.

[QUOTE=Berman Slick;52950524]Saying you [I]have[/I] to use someone else's pronouns, implying that gender expression / more than two genders isn't subjective to everyone, but objective truth. If I don't believe there are more than two genders (I do believe that though), you can't force me to think/act like there are. That's just fuckery, even though it's for a good cause[/QUOTE] I understand and can respect your position but can you give an example of legislation that is either already in place or currently being pushed for that would force people to use an individual's preferred pronouns?

[QUOTE=cbb;52950532]I understand and can respect your position but can you give an example of legislation that is either already in place or currently being pushed for that would force people to use an individual's preferred pronouns?[/QUOTE] California has it for people working in elderly care homes, but I think that only extends to transgender people using he/she.

[QUOTE=cbb;52950510]Yes. It's just as disparaging as believing that black people are less than human. In some ways it might be even worse because it implies that non-cis people do not exist, that they are mentally unstable for identifying outside the norm.[/QUOTE] The reason I ask is because I do not understand gender fluidity. I don't understand how someone can feel neither like a male nor a female. I try to understand but it just leaves me with more unanswered questions. Despite this I do [B]not[/B] believe they are mentally unstable, nor do I treat them any differently than I would treat anybody else.

[QUOTE=cbb;52950532]I understand and can respect your position but can you give an example of legislation that is either already in place or currently being pushed for that would force people to use an individual's preferred pronouns?[/QUOTE] Bill C16 in Canada, California's Retirment/healthcare Bill, and New York City off the top of my head have legislation regarding pronoun misusage backed with punitive actions. There is actually more, but that is quickly off my head. [editline]5th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Kiwi;52950477]I can appreciate the question and the debate but something that really irks me is the amount of interruptions and the assertive nature that Crowder does. I would not want to debate with that person at all.[/QUOTE] I can agree that Crowder got too agitated/aggressive on the second person in a few cases, but in general that debate was really bad considering terms like violence were being misused so much. Didn't help that was when the debate became a spectacle with some people trying to intrude. Atleast the first and third person made up for that with cordial debate.