So, I'm not sure what to think about this. It seems like a bad idea.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn7DBdaUNLA&t[/media]
[url]https://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=17285120011[/url]
yeah how about no
Meh. We all know this will never reach its full practical potential. It's a cool concept tho.
Eh, I'm fine with it, tbh.
You're required to have that home camera thing before you can use home delivery, iirc, and you can set that up to only look at your front door.
And if their promo material is accurate, the delivery method doesn't actually include going inside of your house, but rather just opening your door a tad, slipping the package in, and leaving while closing+locking the door.
nowhere near as risky as Walmart's where they actually go [I]into[/I] your house, walk around to find the kitchen, and put all your groceries away for you. if you don't have any cameras in that instance, say bye to all of your shit without a trace of forceful entry
So many FPers getting so angry over this lmao, it's opt-in, who gives a fuck. I personally think it's great, the amount of times I've missed a delivery either because I've been out or haven't heard the door knock. I've literally got zero issues giving someone 5 seconds access to plop a package in my hallway (where you literally can't see any other part of my apartment other than the stairs). I'd definitely use something like this tbh. It'd be even better if you had a house with a porch that has two doors, so the only door they'd have access to just lets them into a secure porch area, but not the actual house.
Amazon has been nothing but great over the years I've used them, if some crazy mail person decided to ransack my apartment, I'm pretty sure I'd be reimbursed, but with the video feed and everything, what are the odds that someone is going to even attempt anything like that? Not only is their name, address and history known by Amazon, there'll be some form of delivery scan / ID, so you'd be held accountable if you felt like stealing shit. You'd have to be mad or suicidal to do something like this, cause chances are you'd get locked up so fast.
[QUOTE=DarklytheGreat;52821656]Eh, I'm fine with it, tbh.
You're required to have that home camera thing before you can use home delivery, iirc, and you can set that up to only look at your front door.
And if their promo material is accurate, the delivery method doesn't actually include going inside of your house, but rather just opening your door a tad, slipping the package in, and leaving while closing+locking the door.
nowhere near as risky as Walmart's where they actually go [I]into[/I] your house[/QUOTE]
yeah but what about when some script kiddies decide to start using your wifi to unlock your front door?
and you're saying that delivery method involves slipping the package in the front door like there's no scumbags who will waltz on into your house anyway to fuck with your shit. if all you have is the one webcam pointed at the front door, then they can walk into your house and do whatever the hell they want and then when you accuse them of something they say "hey i just left the package on the counter" and then you won't be able to do fuck all about it without any solid proof that they stole something or damaged something or whatever.
it's an absolutely terrible idea to let any strangers into your house when you're not around, for any reason.
[editline]25th October 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=loopoo;52821809]So many FPers getting so angry over this lmao, it's opt-in, who gives a fuck. I personally think it's great, the amount of times I've missed a delivery either because I've been out or haven't heard the door knock. I've literally got zero issues giving someone 5 seconds access to plop a package in my hallway (where you literally can't see any other part of my apartment other than the stairs). I'd definitely use something like this tbh. It'd be even better if you had a house with a porch that has two doors, so the only door they'd have access to just lets them into a secure porch area, but not the actual house.
Amazon has been nothing but great over the years I've used them, if some crazy mail person decided to ransack my apartment, I'm pretty sure I'd be reimbursed, but with the video feed and everything, what are the odds that someone is going to even attempt anything like that? Not only is their name, address and history known by Amazon, there'll be some form of delivery scan / ID, so you'd be held accountable if you felt like stealing shit. You'd have to be mad or suicidal to do something like this, cause chances are you'd get locked up so fast.[/QUOTE]
just because its opt in doesn't mean that its not a terrible idea. you're saying literally the most ideal, secure scenario possible for this. i said some paranoid ass shit about the delivery guys, sure, but the lock is a fucking wifi controlled door lock just waiting for some leet hacker to fuck with
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52821893]yeah but what about when some script kiddies decide to start using your wifi to unlock your front door?
and you're saying that delivery method involves slipping the package in the front door like there's no scumbags who will waltz on into your house anyway to fuck with your shit. if all you have is the one webcam pointed at the front door, then they can walk into your house and do whatever the hell they want and then when you accuse them of something they say "hey i just left the package on the counter" and then you won't be able to do fuck all about it without any solid proof that they stole something or damaged something or whatever.
it's an absolutely terrible idea to let any strangers into your house when you're not around, for any reason.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry but this is so incredibly retarded. Do you think a multibillion dollar company is just gonna release this product without realising something like this might happen? There's a reason you can only get the Amazon Key if you get the webcam with it as well.
And how idiotic would the delivery driver have to be to knowingly waltz into your house, knowing full well that they've just ID'd themselves delivering your package, [I]and[/I] opening the door. They'd get fucked so hard. If they're so evil and conniving, why aren't they stealing my packages all the time? Or when they say they've left it in my safe location near my porch, why aren't they pocketing it and claiming they've delivered it? I've never once had them steal a package, even though it'd be so easy for them to claim they did and then leave me thinking some scrote of a kid walked by and nicked it. I've had stuff get lost in the mail in the past, and Amazon has 100% either offered me a refund or sent me a replacement, no questions asked.
You're acting as if this gives delivery drivers free reign of your apartment, but how dumb would Amazon be to not straight up threaten and warn their employees "When you deliver packages, open the door just enough to drop the package in and then close it". And everyone is assuming the worst of delivery drivers when there's not really been much precedent for that sort of behaviour. Everything is catalogued and ID'd, so if anything went wrong, it'd be them getting the shit for it.
[QUOTE=loopoo;52821904]I'm sorry but this is so incredibly retarded. Do you think a multibillion dollar company is just gonna release this product without realising something like this might happen? There's a reason you can only get the Amazon Key if you get the webcam with it as well.
And how idiotic would the delivery driver have to be to knowingly waltz into your house, knowing full well that they've just ID'd themselves delivering your package, [I]and[/I] opening the door. They'd get fucked so hard. If they're so evil and conniving, why aren't they stealing my packages all the time? Or when they say they've left it in my safe location near my porch, why aren't they pocketing it and claiming they've delivered it? I've never once had them steal a package, even though it'd be so easy for them to claim they did and then leave me thinking some scrote of a kid walked by and nicked it. I've had stuff get lost in the mail in the past, and Amazon has 100% either offered me a refund or sent me a replacement, no questions asked.
You're acting as if this gives delivery drivers free reign of your apartment, but how dumb would Amazon be to not straight up threaten and warn their employees "When you deliver packages, open the door just enough to drop the package in and then close it". And everyone is assuming the worst of delivery drivers when there's not really been much precedent for that sort of behaviour. Everything is catalogued and ID'd, so if anything went wrong, it'd be them getting the shit for it.[/QUOTE]
well i did say it's a pretty paranoid idea, but you're being incredibly naive if you think that giving complete strangers free reign to enter your home isn't a terrible idea.
and again, there's still the glaring issue of having a [b][i]WIFI ENABLED LOCK ON YOUR FRONT DOOR[/b][/i] for script kiddies to fuck with. there's definitely no way that can go wrong.
you're acting like mailmen are just random people hired off of the streets. like i dunno how many different ways I can say: they'd be held accountable very easily if they did naughty things in your apartment. they've given all their info to their employee, they'll log themselves as being in the process of delivering / having delivered your item, the camera will record what they do (which will be like in the video, just opening the door and squeezing the package in). do the math, if they [I]were[/I] to be the thieving scum that you think they are, how do you propose they'd get away with it? jesus. "i've been tasked with delivering this package, the system has my name logged next to the package, i need to go to this apartment and open the door and deliver it. but fuck that, i'm gonna nick all their shit and take a dump in their toilet, fuck the consequences"
and again: if mailmen are such sneaky bastards, why have i not had hefty, expensive looking packages get nicked / stolen in the past? because they're held accountable.
as for the script kiddie stuff, whatever. i'm not well versed in all that stuff but i can't imagine a company risking their public image by releasing a gadget that's easy to hack into and fuck over a tonne of customers, which would entail one hell of a hefty lawsuit.
ransomeware on locks and cameras, I'm calling it now.
[QUOTE=loopoo;52821997]you're acting like mailmen are just random people hired off of the streets. like i dunno how many different ways I can say: they'd be held accountable very easily if they did naughty things in your apartment. they've given all their info to their employee, they'll log themselves as being in the process of delivering / having delivered your item, the camera will record what they do (which will be like in the video, just opening the door and squeezing the package in). do the math, if they [I]were[/I] to be the thieving scum that you think they are, how do you propose they'd get away with it? jesus. "i've been tasked with delivering this package, the system has my name logged next to the package, i need to go to this apartment and open the door and deliver it. but fuck that, i'm gonna nick all their shit and take a dump in their toilet, fuck the consequences"
and again: if mailmen are such sneaky bastards, why have i not had hefty, expensive looking packages get nicked / stolen in the past? because they're held accountable.
as for the script kiddie stuff, whatever. i'm not well versed in all that stuff but i can't imagine a company risking their public image by releasing a gadget that's easy to hack into and fuck over a tonne of customers, which would entail one hell of a hefty lawsuit.[/QUOTE]
are you a mailman? you seem awfully offended about this...
on a serious note,
it doesn't matter if amazon has all their information. if there's only the one camera pointed at the front door, then they can walk into the house and do whatever, and you have absolutely no way to prove that they fucked with something in your house. maybe they get yelled at or fired for walking into the house instead of slipping the package in, but good luck proving they did something criminal.
stealing your packages is one thing, delivery drivers don't even know whats in your package. it could be some expensive ass equipment that they can flip for a quick buck, or it could be your dragon fleshlight collection. they'd have to be a [i]particularly[/i] dumb crook to steal a package that they're supposed to be delivering because it might not even be something valuable and they'd probably get into hot water over nothing. if you tell amazon you didn't get your package, they can investigate the driver and all that shit if they want.
walking into somebody's house with nobody around? they can't investigate to find out if some scumbag delivery driver, of which it is not unfeasible that some of whom exist, walked out of your house with something you claim to have owned, or if he decided to vandalize your shit. it's a your word vs their word scenario, and since amazon is a multi billion dollar corporation like you said, their lawyers are gonna fucking win and say "no our driver didn't do shit we don't owe you shit."
you're also assuming that there's no scumbag crook delivery drivers out there that [i]aren't[/i] dumb enough to try something stupid. criminals aren't known for being very smart, you know. you say "how do you propose they'd get away with it?" if they're committing crimes on the job in the first place, they're probably not bright enough to think that far ahead.
is it LIKELY that the average delivery driver will try some dumb shit with this system? no. are there PROBABLY going to be cases where something happened nonetheless? absolutely. don't ever underestimate how dumb some people can be.
and i doubt (or at least i hope not) that the lock will be [i]easy[/i] to hack, but that doesn't mean that people aren't going to do it. i'm willing to bet that it's not [i]easy[/i] to hack, say, equifax, but people still did it. don't ever underestimate how smart some people can be.
One thing, depending on how reliable it is, is this.
[quote]What happens if someone is home on delivery day?
On delivery day, the driver will knock before requesting access. [B]You can also select “Block Access” in the Amazon Key App at any time[/B] up until the package is delivered. The delivery driver will then follow your standard Amazon delivery process.[/quote]
So it sounds like you can disable access in general until you decide otherwise?
[QUOTE=loopoo;52821904]If they're so evil and conniving, why aren't they stealing my packages all the time? Or when they say they've left it in my safe location near my porch, why aren't they pocketing it and claiming they've delivered it?[/quote]
Shit like that can and does happen though.
Further, this system is abusable. If someone manages to figure out the protocol they can literally hack in and open your own front door. ANYONE. Not just the mailman. And security cameras don't stop people, they just force them to wear masks.
[editline]26th October 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Nookyava;52822255]One thing, depending on how reliable it is, is this.
So it sounds like you can disable access in general until you decide otherwise?[/QUOTE]
Thats good but defeats the purpose of the whole system, and doesn't nullify that this is just another useless thing in the internet of shit
What I'm assuming is the mailmen don't have permission to go into the house, the cleaners example was a third party which you are reliable for, however Amazon themselves only drop the package just inside. I'm willing to bet if they enter the house and go past the webcam they will be in a lot of trouble and liable. Amazon is good at compensating too.
[QUOTE=Nookyava;52822255]So it sounds like you can disable access in general until you decide otherwise?[/QUOTE]
You say that like it's a good thing. All I see is another attack vector.
I mean seriously. An app for your door locks? What the hell?
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY7i7kj2jO4[/media]
...Can we just admit that we're now just getting incredibly lazy? Doing small things like picking up a package is now sonehow a day ender.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;52822946]You say that like it's a good thing. All I see is another attack vector.
I mean seriously. An app for your door locks? What the hell?
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY7i7kj2jO4[/media][/QUOTE]
Most people forget to lock their windows at night and bump keys work on something like 90% of locks.
Well I actually think this is a great if done properly. If this is some random startup then I'd think they are half insane for attempting this, but this is Amazon. As with any new concept, there are always plenty of doubters who prioritize (speculated) cons over pros. I would put my faith in them thoroughly testing it to be safe and reliable. They stand to lose too much if they fuck up tbh, toying with home security like that.
Reminded me of how old geezers reacted to online marketplaces when it was brand new, "oh how would you know if they will honor their deal?!? Too risky! Just buy it off the local store!".
[QUOTE=SunsetTable;52823544]...Can we just admit that we're now just getting incredibly lazy? Doing small things like picking up a package is now sonehow a day ender.[/QUOTE]
this is easy for you to say if you aren't in full-time education / employment. I have uni some days from 9-6pm, last thing I can take time to do is driving 15 mins to the big mail depot to pick my stuff up. calling people lazy for not picking up packages is super naive.
missing a delivery is a hassle.
[QUOTE=SunsetTable;52823544]...Can we just admit that we're now just getting incredibly lazy? Doing small things like picking up a package is now sonehow a day ender.[/QUOTE]
It's not about laziness, it's about the fact that not everybody can always be at home.
[QUOTE=loopoo;52821997]you're acting like mailmen are just random people hired off of the streets.[/QUOTE]
Do you not have a job? Cuz that's kinda exactly how entry level positions like being a mailman works, actually :v:
USPS just had some big scandal in California where hundreds of postal workers (including two in my own city) got fired for stealing mail and whatnot. Acting like it doesn't happen sometimes is just naive.
Imagine being the delivery guy and someone locking you inside their home, while you are dropping off the package.
[QUOTE=REMBER;52825068]Imagine being the delivery guy and someone locking you inside their home, while you are dropping off the package.[/QUOTE]
now all i can think about is saw but instead of jigsaw it's your fucking google home and the victim is the delivery man.
[QUOTE=loopoo;52821997][B]you're acting like mailmen are just random people hired off of the streets. [/B]like i dunno how many different ways I can say: they'd be held accountable very easily if they did naughty things in your apartment. they've given all their info to their employee, they'll log themselves as being in the process of delivering / having delivered your item, the camera will record what they do (which will be like in the video, just opening the door and squeezing the package in). do the math, if they [I]were[/I] to be the thieving scum that you think they are, how do you propose they'd get away with it? jesus. "i've been tasked with delivering this package, the system has my name logged next to the package, i need to go to this apartment and open the door and deliver it. but fuck that, i'm gonna nick all their shit and take a dump in their toilet, fuck the consequences"
and again: if mailmen are such sneaky bastards, why have i not had hefty, expensive looking packages get nicked / stolen in the past? because they're held accountable.
as for the script kiddie stuff, whatever. i'm not well versed in all that stuff but i can't imagine a company risking their public image by releasing a gadget that's easy to hack into and fuck over a tonne of customers, which would entail one hell of a hefty lawsuit.[/QUOTE]
Amazon Flex is basically just hiring people off the street to deliver your stuff. They do a background check but there is practically no interview process, you pretty much just sign up on an app, wait a couple of days and you're good to go.
Doesn't sound [I]that[/I] bad in theory actually after thinking about it. If you've ordered something valuable it's probably less risky to let an Amazon employee, who will be accountable, enter your house than have the package sit on your doorstep.
The main problem really is the possibility for other people to hack into your house through your wifi lock.
[QUOTE=Kljunas;52830314]Doesn't sound [I]that[/I] bad in theory actually after thinking about it. If you've ordered something valuable it's probably less risky to let an Amazon employee, who will be accountable, enter your house than have the package sit on your doorstep.
The main problem really is the possibility for other people to hack into your house through your wifi lock.[/QUOTE]
Probably even less risky to have it delivered to where you work instead of letting a stranger into your house when you aren't around.
Sucks if you're retail though I guess.
[QUOTE=Kljunas;52830314]Doesn't sound [I]that[/I] bad in theory actually after thinking about it. If you've ordered something valuable it's probably less risky to let an Amazon employee, who will be accountable, enter your house than have the package sit on your doorstep.
The main problem really is the possibility for other people to hack into your house through your wifi lock.[/QUOTE]
the hacking thing is a nonissue, since this lock gets installed on your current door, you'll still have your old lock. my door lock has a latch, where I can leave it open if I'm expecting friends and can't be arsed to let them in, so I tell them the door's on latch and they just come in themselves.
so basically, if you're expecting a delivery on a certain day, leave the door on latch, with the amazon key acting as your sole lock. then on days when you're not expecting any deliveries, just lock your door as normal.
[editline]28th October 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=helifreak;52830321]Probably even less risky to have it delivered to where you work instead of letting a stranger into your house when you aren't around.
Sucks if you're retail though I guess.[/QUOTE]
there's amazon lockers too. and getting it delivered with neighbours. but I dunno why people are getting pitchforks out over this, if you think it's dumb, just don't use it. it doesn't affect you in any way.
I'm personally gonna sign right the fuck up when this rolls out in the UK.
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