• Star Wars the Last Jedi - IHE
    47 replies, posted
[video=youtube;oSU1STltwS0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSU1STltwS0[/video]
ihe nails it on the head pretty much [sp]cool movie overshadowed by a few negative things but you can't say that or fans/haters will call you a dumb idiot. even this videos youtube comments fall under that dumb shit.[/sp]
I disagree with a lot of his opinions. My main issue from the movie stems from that by end of the film, nothing of value was really accomplished. Not a single character was developed in any meaningful way, aside from Kylo. Even the films main protagonist, Rey, did not evolve whatsoever by the end of the film aside from being maybe a bit wiser. There is no actual conflict between any of the characters aside from Kylo's hatred for Luke. With the originals and even the prequels you had this clear progression with every character - with some progression being assumed with time-gaps between the films (something the sequel trilogy hasn't done). In the first film, Luke had his loss with his aunt and uncle and then Ben but ultimately came out on-top with his friends with little knowledge of the Force, though with Obi-Wan guiding him on the basics. His point on "oh well Luke was able to use Force Pull out of nowhere to grab his saber" was a bit ridiculous considering Luke was aware of the Force for years and it was assumed he trained during the few [B]years[/B] between A New Hope and Empire. Not to bring up the whole "Rey is a mary-sue" argument, which I don't think she is, but she literally, with zero training or knowledge in Jedi abilities and powers, is able to utilize not only mind-trick but force pull while overwhelming a trained Kylo Ren. Not once in this film or the Last Jedi is she defeated or suffers a great loss (aside from her parents abandoning her). Everything in the originals had purpose and led to character progression. Luke [B]lost[/B] to Darth Vader not only in combat but the twist revealing he was his father. The movie ended on an optimistic end with Luke and the Rebels as a whole suffering a huge loss. Then again we have another time skip between Empire and Jedi and again we see Luke has evolved with even more training from Yoda and Obi-Wan. A lot of interesting plot-points set up with The Force Awakens went completely unutilized or flat out ignored, which made the film seem directionless and completely independent from its trilogy. You really don't have to watch TFA because none of it is used. Ignoring the fact that this is a bad Star Wars film (in my opinion), it's just a bad film overall. If this was a sequel to any other trilogy, it would have the same glaring issues of lackluster character development, pointless side-plots, and an overall lack of meaning or plot progression. That's the issue with this film in my opinion. (As well as too many cheap gags and laughs, but this is more about the plot) The First Order and the Resistance are both in the same exact place as when we started The Last Jedi. So what the hell was even the point of this film?
[QUOTE=redBadger;53065448]A lot of interesting plot-points set up with The Force Awakens went completely unutilized or flat out ignored, which made the film seem directionless and completely independent from its trilogy. You really don't have to watch TFA because none of it is used. [/QUOTE] this is what really seals the deal for me that TLJ is a pretty massive letdown. shit on TFA all you want I recognized its flaws but positively loved a number of aspects of it and thought it had the perfect setup for a fascinating trilogy and they fuckin blew it
I don't understand why it's so wrong to call Rey a Mary Sue. She fits the definition pretty well. Over the course of about two days she's now the strongest jedi alive, becomes the resistances absolute center of attention, can fly ships like an ace, can speak droid and swim despite living her whole life on a desert planet. She's grown more in two days than space Jesus did in twenty. I've never heard a convincing argument against this. People just say oh she's not a Mary Sue and never elaborate. It's like people feel like they have to like Rey, which confuses me because she has the charisma of a brick. Luke had Mary Sue tendencies as well but they weren't nearly as bad and it was easier to swallow because he was endearing.
[QUOTE=redBadger;53065448]The First Order and the Resistance are both in the same exact place as when we started The Last Jedi. So what the hell was even the point of this film?[/QUOTE] I wouldn't say that [sp]The Resistances whole army fitting inside the Falcon and The First Order having it's 30 year (plus/minus) successfull leader replaced by an unstable and over-confident teenager leaves the factions in the same place as before.[/sp]
I hate everything, unless everyone hates it, then I love it. I like how he completely ignores how the characters do and learn nothing, the plot was super boring, and the consistency from TFA was completely thrown out the window. I don't want to see multiple directors [i]interpretations of star wars[/i] I want to see a GOOD Star Wars story ffs.
Did The Last Jedi had problems? Yeah it did, but in hindsight some felt like nitpicks more than anything with the only disappointment being [sp]Phasma's only scenes in the last third of the movie when she could have been there with Kylo Ren attacking The Resistance[/sp]. Rose was fine, but the arc with [sp]code breaker on the gambling world[/sp]got a bit preachy at the end and could have done without it. Cool chase scene though.
[QUOTE=maddogsamurai;53065669]Did The Last Jedi had problems? Yeah it did, but in hindsight some felt like nitpicks more than anything with the only disappointment being [sp]Phasma's only scenes in the last third of the movie when she could have been there with Kylo Ren attacking The Resistance[/sp]. Rose was fine, but the arc with [sp]code breaker on the gambling world[/sp]got a bit preachy at the end and could have done without it. Cool chase scene though.[/QUOTE] [sp]Phasma is a complete non-character. She shouldn't be in the movie at all.[/sp] Not that that was in any way "the only disappointment" or really any kind of main issue with the film.
[QUOTE=ThePanther;53065655][B]ignores how the characters do and learn nothing[/B].[/QUOTE] Sounds like [sp]something that happened in Empire Strikes Back. I'm not bashing ESB, it's amazing, but to say anyone in the filmed learned anything was that Luke found out his father didn't die/Vader's his father. That's kind of it. Everyone got suckered on Bespin City thinking it was a beautiful skip to get fuel only for Lando to betray his best friend for Bespin's safety. Luke never did learn much from Yoda's training aside from some Force movies and he ran after his friends without knowing he's running into danger he's not prepared for. Yoda warned him, and it cost him his hand and his sanity. Empire Strikes Back is not a bad film for this. In fact it plays with the tone thinking the heroes were going to win round 2 like in ANH. I don't think The Last Jedi should be at fault for having a similar outcome. Starkiller Base blew up, now The First Order's pissed and brought out their full military might on The Resistance. The Resistance lose their home base, most of their troops are gone, and help is across the galaxy.[/sp] The point is [sp]No one gained anything from this. The First Order and The Resistance are at a stalemate by thsi point and one wrong move can blow this thing over. It's up to Rey, Poe, and Finn to figure out the perfect counterattack against the newly appointed Supreme Leader Kylo Ren. Rey discovers Ben is beyond saving, and The Resistance has one last chance to get back at the enemy.[/sp]
i enjoyed the film. probably because i don't care much about star wars in general
Say what you want about the film, but [sp]that goddamn light speed suicide was the coolest thing ever[/sp]
[QUOTE=redBadger;53065448]In the first film, Luke had his loss with his aunt and uncle and then Ben but ultimately came out on-top with his friends with little knowledge of the Force, though with Obi-Wan guiding him on the basics. His point on "oh well Luke was able to use Force Pull out of nowhere to grab his saber" was a bit ridiculous considering Luke was aware of the Force for years and it was assumed he trained during the few [B]years[/B] between A New Hope and Empire. Not to bring up the whole "Rey is a mary-sue" argument, which I don't think she is, but she literally, with zero training or knowledge in Jedi abilities and powers, is able to utilize not only mind-trick but force pull while overwhelming a trained Kylo Ren. Not once in this film or the Last Jedi is she defeated or suffers a great loss (aside from her parents abandoning her).[/QUOTE] Where the hell did you get that idea? Do you really think the Empire took [B]years[/B] after Yavin to look for the rebels, or that Han stayed with the Rebellion for [B]years[/B] and skipping out on his debt to Jabba, along with Hand and Leia's romance not progressing at all during that time? Do you know how long a year is?
[QUOTE=Destroyox;53066781]Where the hell did you get that idea? Do you really think the Empire took [B]years[/B] after Yavin to look for the rebels, or that Han stayed with the Rebellion for [B]years[/B] and skipping out on his debt to Jabba, along with Hand and Leia's romance not progressing at all during that time? Do you know how long a year is?[/QUOTE] According to canon it was 3 years between ANH and Empire
[QUOTE=Stiffy360;53066589]Say what you want about the film, but [sp]that goddamn light speed suicide was the coolest thing ever[/sp][/QUOTE] Even though Star Wars has always been about spectacle more than realistic space combat, this bugged me more than anything else in the movie. I wasn't bothered by bombers in space seemingly relying on gravity to deliver bombs but being able to [sp]lightspeed kamakaze[/sp] a target doesn't make any sense in the context of the universe. If that works, why not just do that all the time? It's the most overpowered tactic ever if a ship that small can destroy a ship that big. Like why not do the same thing to the Death Star?
[QUOTE=Dirty_Ape;53067623]Even though Star Wars has always been about spectacle more than realistic space combat, this bugged me more than anything else in the movie. I wasn't bothered by bombers in space seemingly relying on gravity to deliver bombs but being able to [sp]lightspeed kamakaze[/sp] a target doesn't make any sense in the context of the universe. If that works, why not just do that all the time? It's the most overpowered tactic ever if a ship that small can destroy a ship that big. Like why not do the same thing to the Death Star?[/QUOTE] It's expensive, for one.
[QUOTE=Dirty_Ape;53067623]Even though Star Wars has always been about spectacle more than realistic space combat, this bugged me more than anything else in the movie. I wasn't bothered by bombers in space seemingly relying on gravity to deliver bombs but being able to [sp]lightspeed kamakaze[/sp] a target doesn't make any sense in the context of the universe. If that works, why not just do that all the time? It's the most overpowered tactic ever if a ship that small can destroy a ship that big. Like why not do the same thing to the Death Star?[/QUOTE] And two, [sp]It's essentially turning your ship into a hyperspace bullet. No one is willing to commit that level of sacrifice except for the general in The Last Jedi.[/sp]
[QUOTE=The_J_Hat;53067631]It's expensive, for one.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure the Death Star / Starkiller base is significantly more expensive for the same effect. [QUOTE=maddogsamurai;53067637]And two, [sp]It's essentially turning your ship into a hyperspace bullet. No one is willing to commit that level of sacrifice except for the general in The Last Jedi.[/sp][/QUOTE] Nobody has to be piloting it.
[QUOTE=maddogsamurai;53067637]And two, [sp]It's essentially turning your ship into a hyperspace bullet. No one is willing to commit that level of sacrifice except for the general in The Last Jedi.[/sp][/QUOTE] So they can build all these massive ships and make them space worthy, yet they can't figure out a remote control system?
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;53067659]I'm pretty sure the Death Star / Starkiller base is significantly more expensive for the same effect. [/QUOTE] But at least it's cost effective and the Empire/First Order can afford it, whereas the Rebels/Resistance can only afford cruisers and other leftovers from the previous war.
[QUOTE=redBadger;53065448]The First Order and the Resistance are both in the same exact place as when we started The Last Jedi. So what the hell was even the point of this film?[/QUOTE] This is factually wrong.
I dislike Star Wars, but kinda liked Episode 7 and 8 (and found Rogue One pretty boring). The worst thing about the movie was the that godawful stupid general making the people she was supposed to lead think she was incompetent as fuck. I have no idea why she did that. It caused literally nothing but problems, only for her to be smug for like a second when people found out that she wasn't incompetent in that specific way. WHY
[QUOTE=maddogsamurai;53067637]And two, [sp]It's essentially turning your ship into a hyperspace bullet. No one is willing to commit that level of sacrifice except for the general in The Last Jedi.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Put a light speed drive on a big rock, point at enemies, press go[/sp]
[QUOTE=icemaz;53067749][sp]Put a light speed drive on a big rock, point at enemies, press go[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]What's the likelihood those drives are pretty expensive? Would it also not need a shitload of support systems to actually work on a rock such as navigation (it needs to know where to jump), fuel and any cooling? It's not really something that retroactively introduces a massive plot hole as there could be a myriad of reasons nobody did it before.[/sp]
The entire [sp]hyperdrive ram[/sp] argument could go on for ages but it boils down to this: it doesn't fucking matter that it's supposedly a repeatable tactic. Just like it doesn't matter that the death star would cost too much to be cost-efficient at any measure. Star Wars as a universe makes no goddamn sense if you start looking into that kind of stuff, that's why shit like Wookiepedia is an insufferable mess of explanations trumping other explanations, desperately trying to cobble together some sense into an inherently impossible universe that relies so heavily on rule of cool it might as well trademark the use of the trope.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;53067755][sp]What's the likelihood those drives are pretty expensive? Would it also not need a shitload of support systems to actually work on a rock such as navigation (it needs to know where to jump), fuel and any cooling? It's not really something that retroactively introduces a massive plot hole as there could be a myriad of reasons nobody did it before.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]It seems like most ships are capable of warp speed travel. What's to stop someone buying a cheap banged up ship, striping it for parts, and doing it? Then you have all the associated systems too. Or even just remote control that banged up ship. It's obviously not large enough to completely destroy a large ship, but it could still cause some serious damage.[/sp]
I figure most ships would have to get close to get an approximation to jump to hyper space, which also takes time (you just don't hit a button). And if they're close they would surely get caught by defense countermeasures or tractor beams.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;53067765]The entire [sp]hyperdrive ram[/sp] argument could go on for ages but it boils down to this: it doesn't fucking matter that it's supposedly a repeatable tactic. Just like it doesn't matter that the death star would cost too much to be cost-efficient at any measure. Star Wars as a universe makes no goddamn sense if you start looking into that kind of stuff, that's why shit like Wookiepedia is an insufferable mess of explanations trumping other explanations, desperately trying to cobble together some sense into an inherently impossible universe that relies so heavily on rule of cool it might as well trademark the use of the trope.[/QUOTE] I completely agree, but that doesn't also mean it was a worthwhile thing to include in the film. Beyond just the practicality, I didn't really care about that character. The film was great in general, but the arc of that character didn't inspire me whatsoever.
[QUOTE=DuCT;53067668]So they can build all these massive ships and make them space worthy, yet they can't figure out a remote control system?[/QUOTE] Welcome to Star Wars
If you activate hyper drive too early, I'd assume you'd just pass through the ship harmlessly and be a sitting duck for the First Order when they seek you out And if you do it too late, then you'd probably get shot down before you have the opportunity to do any damage. Not to mention, when strength is in numbers you can't just have resistance members killing themselves for the opportunity to destroy a single ship out of however many the First Order has. So I think what happened in this movie was a lucky last ditch effort that paid off and simply can't be afforded multiple times
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.