god damn, i wish someone had the gut to tell me all of this 10 years ago
[editline]6th June 2016[/editline]
surprisingly enough, everything else on the channel seems to be conservative bollocks
I guess the "this is my opinion" and the preface of "the only two things I can tell you without absolutely no agenda are congratulations and good luck" help sell this one
well, i mostly agree with this, but it makes me wonder how many people believe in "following your dreams", but also believe that they don't need to put effort towards it to succeed. that's like terribly optimistic. the american idol auditions was a pretty good example of that
[QUOTE=Octopod;50464112]well, i mostly agree with this, but it makes me wonder how many people believe in "following your dreams", but also believe that they don't need to put effort towards it to succeed. that's like terribly optimistic. the american idol auditions was a pretty good example of that[/QUOTE]
being overly optimistic has done nothing but good things to me tbh. you CAN get something good out of following your passions, but you gotta commit to it really hard.
At first I thought this was some serious cynicism, but I agree
Proper skilled labor is getting pretty hard to come by. The airline my dad works at set up their own school and pays to train there employees to become certified A&P's and promotes on the spot which starts at like $35 an hour when they finish because no one wants those anymore. It seems like everyone wants a 4 year in business or something.
[QUOTE=StrawberryClock;50464081]god damn, i wish someone had the gut to tell me all of this 10 years ago
[editline]6th June 2016[/editline]
surprisingly enough, everything else on the channel seems to be conservative bollocks
I guess the "this is my opinion" and the preface of "the only two things I can tell you without absolutely no agenda are congratulations and good luck" help sell this one[/QUOTE]
Some of the videos on this channel are pretty bad, others are very good.
[video=youtube;ryA8PafooQ4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryA8PafooQ4[/video]
Of course they have a conservative bias. But most of everything has a bias, and as far as I'm concerned this is balance against a sea of left-leaning channels on YouTube.
Wow, this sucks that It's coming from Mike Rowe. He's such an awesome dude but he's so fucking dead wrong here. Firstly, I can definitely see where his argument is coming from. He explained it himself. At a young age someone he looked up to told him he couldn't do something that he was passionate about.
Now he's repeating what was told to him, and probably what devastated him as a child.
Furthermore, he speaks of talent like its some illusive unicorn that you're either born with or not. We don't inherit genes of being good at something or not good at something. Whether you become 'talented' at something depends largely on your personal aptitude and growth rate for that specific activity. If you have a strong passion about something but you go about learning it in the wrong way, or are misguided, or you don't focus on the skills that are required to excel at said activity, then you aren't honing your craft, you're not taking a methodical route to achieve your objective.
Talent isn't something you're born with, talent is something you grow. It really sucks hearing such a closed minded statement from such a great dude.
Closed minded in the sense where he uses american idol of all things as an example.
There are two types of people in this situation. One type is where he explains that the contestants don't know they are bad at what they are passionate about, and then the other type of person, lets call them the successful artist making the speech saying follow your dreams.
On one hand we have a talented successful artist and on the other hand we have someone with a lot of passion who doesn't have what it takes. These two people have 1 thing in common and one difference. The one thing in common being they love what they do. The difference between them though is focus. I've seen this over and over again with aspiring musicians, artists, producers. The ones who complain about not being successful are the ones who do not have focus in their craft. The ones who like to party too much, treat their craft as something that can gain them social status(not doing it for the right reasons), or are distracted by other things in their life. In other words people who don't have the right kind of focus and discipline will not achieve the level of expertise as those who do.
What mike rowe is promoting is a 'fall in line' mentality. That mentality is fucking great for corporate america but its fucking shit for personal happiness and fulfilment.
Bottom line, follow your dream, but do so in a mature, focused, disciplined, professional manner. If you are doing it for the right reasons then there will always be a measure of success for you. And if you are doing something you truly love and consider you dream, any measure of success is a pretty great thing.
Yeah well there are people with realistic dreams and people who want to become something that is purely based on luck like being a famous musician. It's not passion what you need but determination with a bit of realism.
You can go ahead and decide what you want to do in the future solely based on money, but do you want to be 40 years old knowing you will have to spend decades more doing something that you hate?
[QUOTE=RaptorJGW;50465133]Yeah well there are people with realistic dreams and people who want to become [B]something that is purely based on luck [/B]like being a famous musician. It's not passion what you need but determination with a bit of realism.
You can go ahead and decide what you want to do in the future solely based on money, but do you want to be 40 years old knowing you will have to spend decades more doing something that you hate?[/QUOTE]
You have to be lucky to make it big as an artist, but it's absolutely not "purely based on luck"
So basically sit back and take whatever life throws at you with a brave face on?
Utter bullshit. If you TRULY care about something you will put maximum effort in it and not be deterred at any point. I know a dozen artists/film makers/musicians that have struggled through all manner of shit and come out to be top dogs in the concept art/freelance industry. Ever single one of them says you WILL fail at first but through that you learn to get better.
If this guy's story is true then he just quit before he even got anywhere which frankly is a deplorable trait in anyone. Self-betterment should be something everyone strives for and it becomes a defining trait in those who put the work in trying to do something they love.
[editline]6th June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Tsanummy;50465163]You have to be lucky to make it big as an artist, but it's absolutely not "purely based on luck"[/QUOTE]
An artist that actually cares 100% about what they do will inevitably get better and their work will always be responded to better. The people I know who are really high up in their respective fields because they aren't just slogging it. They aren't sticking with the trends and they aren't half-arsing their work even if its a commission they don't enjoy. There is luck involved but determination and belief in what you are doing is critical to that kind of career path.
this video is silly
[QUOTE=Tsanummy;50465163]You have to be lucky to make it big as an artist, but it's absolutely not "purely based on luck"[/QUOTE]
As far as being an artist that earns enough money to make a living goes, yeah it pretty much is
There are great and talented artists out there who barely make it through finance wise
Then there are "artists" who don't have much to offer but basically got chosen and crafted into stars
This video reminds me that you should never have 1 passion you focus on wholy. Have like a top 5, or at least a top 3 of jobs that you'd like to do and are all different from each other. Makes it more likely you'll be able to naturally be good at least one of your preferences.
[QUOTE=RaptorJGW;50465220]As far as being an artist that earns enough money to make a living goes, yeah it pretty much is
There are great and talented artists out there who barely make it through finance wise
Then there are "artists" who don't have much to offer but basically got chosen and crafted into stars[/QUOTE]
This is primarily because a lot of people just don't know the business side of things and not many big artists are willing to discuss it due to backlash. You can't be a good artist and just be clueless about the industry or just sat there taking really basic fan-art commissions from people. You have to put as much work into the business side as you do the artistic side.
Just to be clear I'm talking about freelance/concept art. The world of gallery art and the like is completely insane, wouldn't dare recommend anyone attempt that.
[QUOTE=Destroyox;50465229]This video reminds me that you should never have 1 passion you focus on wholy. Have like a top 5, or at least a top 3 of jobs that you'd like to do and are all different from each other. Makes it more likely you'll be able to naturally be good at least one of your preferences.[/QUOTE]
Are you familiar with the saying "jack of all trades, master of none"?
If you want to get really good at something you can't be doing 5 things at once.
This is exactly the mentality that inhibits success for the vast majority of people.
Success is a gamble. You risk everything for great reward.
relevant Louis Rossmann
[video=youtube;hAtlXc5quCY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAtlXc5quCY[/video]
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;50465291]Are you familiar with the saying "jack of all trades, master of none"?
If you want to get really good at something you can't be doing 5 things at once.
This is exactly the mentality that inhibits success for the vast majority of people.
Success is a gamble. You risk everything for great reward.[/QUOTE]
Consider it advice for the 12 y/o who has already decided his/her career path, like the guy in the video.
You'll find a lot of things you can be passionate about, Its important to know whats out there and what you like, doesn't necessarily mean you have to pursuit everything to same degree for the rest of your life.
I have been mulling over this logic for a while now, and I believe it's flawed in a few key ways.
First, starting with his example. He lists himself attempting to copy his father as an example of "following passion". But it doesn't seem he ever truly enjoyed the work. He simply felt an obligation to follow in the footsteps of his role model, and when that proved too difficult, he gave up.
I don't see any indication that he ever found the work personally fulfilling. If anything, it seems more like a case of feeling obligated, rather than feeling motivated. It's only reasonable that he wouldn't pursue such a career.
Second, look at Mike Rowe's career. He was an opera singer. A TV host. A voice actor. A narrator. These are all very unstable, unreliable fields. And yet, he entered them, rather than pursuing something more reliably profitable. Why?
Well, by his own admission, because he enjoys that work. That is what I would call following your passion.
I do not think everything he said is without merit. Obviously someone with no legs is not going to be a ballerina. Aiming to become something you can't become is silly. But aiming to become [I]anything[/I] is silly.
No one enjoys being a ballerina, they enjoy dancing. If you want to be a ballerina, but do not enjoy dancing, then that is hardly your passion. By the same card, if you want to be your grandfather, but you don't enjoy doing what your grandfather does, then that's hardly your passion, is it?
Finally, and this is more of a personal criticism, it seems like Mike is motivated less by logic, and more by a sort of idolization of "hard working america". He constantly espouses the virtues of being hard working, but looking at his life and career, he has hardly put any of those supposed virtues into practice when choosing his own life goals. I suspect that, just as his actions in early life were motivated more by a need to honor his grandfather than personal satisfaction, this too is motivated by a desire to honor what he views as "hard working america". Though this is purely speculation.
Ultimately, I don't believe any statement like "never pursue passion" could work universally. It's too simplistic for it to apply to all individuals, regardless of circumstances. Obviously, ignoring practicality completely is unwise, but to ignore completely what is personally fulfilling is equally unwise. After all, what good is a successful, unfulfilling life? It is the equally unwise counterpart of another unwise idea.
"I mean look at me, I wanted to be a famous person on TV, but now I've got to star in shitty YouTube videos to make ends meet"
[QUOTE=Shortyish;50465196]this video is silly[/QUOTE]
The one in OP?
It kinda tells you to "manage expectations" but also "go with passion" so, not that silly advice?
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;50465548]The one in OP?
It kinda tells you to "manage expectations" but also "go with passion" so, not that silly advice? [/QUOTE]
Yes, that part is, in isolation, quite reasonable.
I do think however that there is something quite silly about a fabulously wealthy TV personality telling other people to just do what's most practical.
also I really love this video of the tv celebrity worth 35 million dollars telling fresh college graduates to dream small and not follow their passions
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50465564]There are aspects of it which are certainly worthy of consideration, but I'd hardly call it simply "true".[/QUOTE]
Yeah, true, but the general message is pretty good I think.
Like, not being too passionate. Managing expectations. The American Idol example.
[editline]6th June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50465564]I do think however that there is something quite silly about a fabulously wealthy TV personality telling other people to just do what's most practical.[/QUOTE]
Oh nvm, I see your points now, reinforced by Judas'
[QUOTE=Judas;50465573]also I really love this video of the tv celebrity worth 35 million dollars telling fresh college graduates to dream small and not follow their passions[/QUOTE]
Mike Rowe started out as an aspiring opera Singer and went to narrate the shopping channel. Hosting TV shows for discovery and CNN wasn't exactly his passion
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50465424]I have been mulling over this logic for a while now, and I believe it's flawed in a few key ways.
First, starting with his example. He lists himself attempting to copy his father as an example of "following passion". But it doesn't seem he ever truly enjoyed the work. He simply felt an obligation to follow in the footsteps of his role model, and when that proved too difficult, he gave up.
I don't see any indication that he ever found the work personally fulfilling. If anything, it seems more like a case of feeling obligated, rather than feeling motivated. It's only reasonable that he wouldn't pursue such a career.
Second, look at Mike Rowe's career. He was an opera singer. A TV host. A voice actor. A narrator. These are all very unstable, unreliable fields. And yet, he entered them, rather than pursuing something more reliably profitable. Why?
Well, by his own admission, because he enjoys that work. That is what I would call following your passion.
I do not think everything he said is without merit. Obviously someone with no legs is not going to be a ballerina. Aiming to become something you can't become is silly. But aiming to become [I]anything[/I] is silly.
No one enjoys being a ballerina, they enjoy dancing. If you want to be a ballerina, but do not enjoy dancing, then that is hardly your passion. By the same card, if you want to be your grandfather, but you don't enjoy doing what your grandfather does, then that's hardly your passion, is it?
Finally, and this is more of a personal criticism, it seems like Mike is motivated less by logic, and more by a sort of idolization of "hard working america". He constantly espouses the virtues of being hard working, but looking at his life and career, he has hardly put any of those supposed virtues into practice when choosing his own life goals. I suspect that, just as his actions in early life were motivated more by a need to honor his grandfather than personal satisfaction, this too is motivated by a desire to honor what he views as "hard working america". Though this is purely speculation.
Ultimately, I don't believe any statement like "never pursue passion" could work universally. It's too simplistic for it to apply to all individuals, regardless of circumstances. Obviously, ignoring practicality completely is unwise, but to ignore completely what is personally fulfilling is equally unwise. After all, what good is a successful, unfulfilling life? It is the equally unwise counterpart of another unwise idea.[/QUOTE]
To develop this line of thought, I think that the great amount of problems that come from people following their passions is not their passion itself, but what I think is the way most people see art today: as something high and unreachable.
For the entire duration of the renaissance, being an artist was nothing more than a job. Artists were trained like every other artisan: they became apprentices at a young age, they worked as helpers along their mentors, and once they were fully formed adults they got their own apprentices.
But something happened in the last century (maybe more than that?). Art stopped simply being a field of work, and became some kind of romantic unattainable ideal, only created by a small sect of naturally gifted so-called-artists that for some reason are born with the "artistic gene": these artists work purely out of their talent, and if you do not have talent then you cannot be an artist.
I believe this is especially true when it comes to book, books are still seen as some kind of mystical entities by people. This is why when I criticize one book or the other, people tend to just respond "Oh, it's just a matter of taste".
Since apparently to be an artist you just "gotta have it", many people just think "they got it", they never actually train their "passion", they never subject themselves to the critics (because art is subjective!) and they never learn anything.
When the moment to actually get judged (like in the American Idol example) comes, they're completely caught off guard.
tl;dr I fucking hate that people think artistic skill is innate because talent is a myth invented by very, very, very lazy people.
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;50465682]Mike Rowe started out as an aspiring opera Singer and went to narrate the shopping channel. Hosting TV shows for discovery and CNN wasn't exactly his passion[/QUOTE]
"I joined the opera to get my union card and meet girls. I was a saloon singer, so I went down to the Baltimore Opera and learned an aria and auditioned. I figured I'd do one show and quit. But the girls were everywhere and the truth is, the music was really decent"
That hardly sounds like putting practicality before passion to me(even though what he was 'passionate' about isn't exactly the job itself :v)
Oh hey look, Rowe managed to tie something mostly unrelated back to his usual "HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT TRADE SCHOOLS THO" stuff.
I think this is pretty much bullshit, for many of the same reasons that have been listed above. Celebrities, for the most part, are not famous 'just because they are better than you/luckier/just because', except for the rare exceptions where their fame is pretty much because they banged the right person on video. Fame is not a lottery where they just pick out some random person and say "We have decided that you will be famous now!". If it was, then being famous would be worth nothing. If you want to be famous, it requires hard work, dedication, making the right moves, actual talent, and [I]then[/I] some luck.
So you need talent, but Rowe talks about talent as if it's something assigned at birth and it isn't. [I]Some[/I] people are naturally good at acting, singing, public speaking, drawing, painting, dancing, or whatever. The vast majority, even among celebrities, are [I]not.[/I] Famous people are not a separate species, they're not genetically superior to you, and they have not been gifted with some mystical unobtainable bullshit. Everyone starts at square one. Everyone starts by drawing a shitty stick man.
You get better at your passion by practicing, learning, and practicing in the right way, which can be hard to do. The problem that keeps the vast majority of people from ever becoming famous or just becoming talented is that we have an ingrained, defeatist attitude that tells us that we can't do it, being famous or talented just isn't possible [I]for us,[/I] and we'll never amount to anything. Super talented people aren't there because they're passionate and therefore talented, they're there because they worked past or didn't let themselves suffer from that defeatist attitude and sucked at whatever it is they wanted to do until slowly, painfully, they got where they wanted to be. If you're in your 20s and you're still not good at art like you wanted to be, maybe that's because you spend your day playing video games instead of working hard at learning to draw, and when you on the rare occasion you do draw you throw it in the garbage and tell yourself you'll never amount to anything. Maybe it's because you subconsciously believe that being good at art was supposed to just happen to you, and it didn't. It didn't happen, not because you're not special, but because pretty much nobody is special and it happens to nobody else either. Become truly dedicated, not just passively wanting to be and making short lived attempts, and you can do whatever the fuck you want. It might just require several years of effort. But if you're not willing to put that in, well then stop worrying about it because you'll never get there. People who are where you want to be [I]were[/I] willing to put that effort and time in. And yeah, maybe you might not ever be famous even if you're super talented, but living your passion should give you fulfillment in itself. But if not being famous kills the whole thing for you then you're passionate about being famous, [I]not[/I] about being an artist or an actor or musician or whatever.
To sum it all up in a simple quote;
[quote=Bob Ross]“Talent is a pursued interest. Anything that you're willing to practice, you can do.”[/quote]
Also PragerU is fucking garbage can we stop posting them please
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;50468194] If you're in your 20s and you're still not good at art like you wanted to be, maybe that's because you spend your day playing video games instead of working hard at learning to draw, and when you on the rare occasion you do draw you throw it in the garbage and tell yourself you'll never amount to anything.[/QUOTE]
This is me, except with any form of hobby and instead of video games which I haven't touched in almost two years it's my attention span is that of a dog and I lose focus immediately on what I'm doing.
I try to take medication to help it, but sometimes I feel like it does nothing.
this is all well and good but I don't have a dream or a passion in the first place.
this is such a shitty video and a shitty message. don't follow your passion because you MIGHT suck at it. pick up a trade you might hate! and hopefully in the future you'll learn to enjoy it!
get fucked
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