TotalBiscuit talks about Overwatch's microtransactions and progression systems for 40ish mins - General

[video]https://youtu.be/g-drM9TA63I[/video] Well, I agree with him. And wow, Jim Sterling and Angry Joe, come on you guys. I mean, these bloody loot boxes have no effect on how the game pans out, what you get out of them are just pretty to look at or listen to. Jim described it as a " avaricious fee-to-pay economy" which is fucking nuts since the unlocks are free and have no effect on the game, you don't need them and can play the exact same game without opening a single loot box than somebody who buys literally 100s. There is no economy because it has no fucking effect on anything, it's a completely separate system. Then there's no trading of goods and services, it's just a drop rate at which people get stuff, keep in mind that means there's no scarcity. Then there's that an actual progression system would downright ruin the game, then there's that being F2P would ruin the game, then there's that a progression system in this game would be really dumb and a game should just be good enough as a game and not artificially force you to play it more, aaand eugh, I guess TB beats a little under video paragraph with his video.

Haven't had the time to watch it yet. Does Angry Joe oppose the system ? His opinions on DLC seem to be fairly inconsistent and he regularly flip flops on them.

totalbiscuit needs to find a way to get his point across quicker, i would like to hear what he has to say but just don't have the time to listen to his longwinded rants

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50455624]Haven't had the time to watch it yet. Does Angry Joe oppose the system ? His opinions on DLC seem to be fairly inconsistent and he regularly flip flops on them.[/QUOTE] [url]https://youtu.be/p9aMpjYFaTk[/url] He comes across as a spoiled child in this review imo, basically telling people what they think and criticizing critics for being out of touch and disingenuous whilst being out of touch and disingenuous himself. Ofc I don't actually like the guy, I have the same problem with him that I have with a fair few YouTubers, that is they're successful for no reason, maybe because he got in early, idk? He constantly puts out low quality content and that's does well for some reason. So maybe that makes me biased, because tbh I'm kinda envious. Then there's his use of numerical review scores, which ofc can fuck right off. So yeah, he does outright [I]oppose[/I] the system, and his reasoning is odd as fuck and arguably non-existent too.

Angry Joe's reviews have taken a hit when he started to stream more frequently and spend less time working on the actual review. He's also been flip-flopping frequently on his opinions on DLC, supporting things like MK9's paid characters but at the same time getting mad at cosmetics being sold individually.

[QUOTE=Scot;50455647]totalbiscuit needs to find a way to get his point across quicker, i would like to hear what he has to say but just don't have the time to listen to his longwinded rants[/QUOTE] In all honesty being long winded as fuck is his thing, ironic considering how much he goes on about time efficiency. Maybe he talks about it in a more conversational, quicker/digestible tone in the podcast if you watch that?

Haven't watched the video yet, but I did listen to the podcast where he shared his opinion- while I do agree that these types of microtransactions are the most harmless of them all, I can't say I agree in having them in a AAA release, even at a budgeted 40 bucks. Sure, I totally get that MTs are done to support characters and maps in the future, but I'd like to believe that 7 million copies sold, on top of the fact that Blizzard has a series of already successful properties (as well as being owned by goddamned Activision), would be enough to support the entire game for several years to come. Overall, I'm not too strong against this type of microtransaction, but I never thought to see TB and his crew defend them so vehemently. Maybe there's a Blizz Bias, I dunno :v:

14 and a half minutes in and I can't count the amount of times he said "I think it's fine for cosmetics because it doesn't affect the gameplay" on fingers. I do love you TotalBiscuit but brevity is not your strong suit. For what it's worth, I agree. If the purchasable items do not affect gameplay, then there's absolutely no harm, within reason of course.

[QUOTE=Magikoopa24;50455735]Haven't watched the video yet, but I did listen to the podcast where he shared his opinion- while I do agree that these types of microtransactions are the most harmless of them all, I can't say I agree in having them in a AAA release, even at a budgeted 40 bucks. Sure, I totally get that MTs are done to support characters and maps in the future, but I'd like to believe that 7 million copies sold, on top of the fact that Blizzard has a series of already successful properties (as well as being owned by goddamned Activision), would be enough to support the entire game for several years to come. Overall, I'm not too strong against this type of microtransaction, but I never thought to see TB and his crew defend them so vehemently. Maybe there's a Blizz Bias, I dunno :v:[/QUOTE] You're pretty much saying exactly what he said about the 'anti microtransactions crowd' though, person A telling person B what person B thinks and saying they disagree out of principle. Then saying you'd never think TB defend it is dumb because he's given his reasoning and it doesn't seem even slightly out of character.

As hardline anti progression and anti microtransaction as I am, I cant bring myself to criticise overwatch on that basis. Everything drops, nothing affects gameplay, thats it. Like, 20 tick, no server browser or mods, absolutely, the cooldown mechan8c being used to exclusion of more varied systems, yeah.

I don't see anything bad with having the cosmetics, or how we get them when we level up. My problem is that you can't choose what you buy. You could put 15 dollars and not get a single thing you want! Why make it so you buy randomness instead of, I don't know, the currency they implemented so you can actually choose what you want!?!

[QUOTE=Mattk50;50455850]As hardline anti progression and anti microtransaction as I am, I cant bring myself to criticise overwatch on that basis. Everything drops, nothing affects gameplay, thats it. Like, 20 tick, no server browser or mods, absolutely, the cooldown mechan8c being used to exclusion of more varied systems, yeah.[/QUOTE] Yeah pretty much, I don't get your problem with cooldowns but the game sure as hell needs to fix its tickrate. Though mods and servers browsers wouldn't benefit the game, with mods having to be heavily moderated and server browsers making some modes and maps complete ghost towns.

[QUOTE=goluffy;50455877]I don't see anything bad with having the cosmetics, or how we get them when we level up. My problem is that you can't choose what you buy. You could put 15 dollars and not get a single thing you want! Why make it so you buy randomness instead of, I don't know, the currency they implemented so you can actually choose what you want!?![/QUOTE] Because the random factor attracts a crowd that likes this sort of gambling.

I disagree with him about "choice". Not everyone who shells out full price for a game has the choice to later grind or buy boxes. He is looking at it from the perspective of someone who is loaded and can dash out cash at will at anything. I also disagree on his views about progression. Most games get boring if there is no progression what so ever. A lot of people will play the game less if there's nothing to progress forwards to. The fact that in a paid, full price game, the cosmetics drop less and less as you progress is kinda sad. Do you NEED them, as he puts it, no, of course not. But they do contribute a lot to fun of the game. Getting a cool skin in CSGO makes the game a lot more fun even if it actually changes nothing besides the color of the gun. As for sprays, they ARE useless relative to other possible drops. Most of the sprays are shit and there's so many of them you feel cheated when you get all sprays in place of potential character skin. I do agree about coins, there should be a steady rate because right now boxes are unreliable as shit and are harder to get each level unless you pay even more. Overall skins add variety and fun, thus I think they are important to gameplay even if they don't actually affect the numbers you dish out.

The xp progression caps at like level 20 or so, I don't think it goes higher than 22K XP per level. Why would you buy a 60 dollar multiplayer only title if you know you won't have the time to play it regularly ? It isn't the type of game you can get around to and "complete" within six hours.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50455908]The xp progression caps at like level 20 or so, I don't think it goes higher than 22K XP per level. Why would you buy a 60 dollar multiplayer only title if you know you won't have the time to play it regularly ? It isn't the type of game you can get around to and "complete" within six hours.[/QUOTE] Because the game should not be 60 dollars in the first place. It plays like a game you play in bursts when you have time, with no commitment but the price says otherwise.

It's a skill based team shooter with a meta and close to zero RNG when it comes to actual gameplay. What exactly makes you think this is a game you should play in bursts ? Every gameplay mechanic indicates otherwise. [editline]4th June 2016[/editline] And why should a multiplayer game, a game designed to be played for literally hundreds of hours, not be sold for 60 bucks ? Multiplayer games are some of the most intense time sinks in the industry, next to RPGs.

[QUOTE=rndgenerator;50455927]Because the game should not be 60 dollars in the first place. It plays like a game you play in bursts when you have time, with no commitment but the price says otherwise.[/QUOTE] It's not. It's $40 dollars. The Origin edition is $60 but unless you play every other Blizzard game and REALLY want those Origin skins then there's no justification in buying that.

I really think they should have stole the master skins idea from heroes of the storm, have one skin that costs 1000g that you can only buy when you are x level with that character. Also x coins per match would be nice even if its only 5 coins per match up to 10x a day. Im fine with this model if they do keep their promise to add content for free like maps and future skins ect, but if they dont then its pretty shit as before the massive f2p uprising stuff like this would normally be in the game with less artificially inflated grinding. Im really not convinced that every game now "needs" these micro transactions to stay afloat, just an easy cash grab that sound designers , artists, coders ect probably dont get a share of. Maybe im wrong about that but i wouldnt be surprised

[QUOTE=Rossy167;50455886]Yeah pretty much, I don't get your problem with cooldowns but the game sure as hell needs to fix its tickrate. Though mods and servers browsers wouldn't benefit the game, with mods having to be heavily moderated and server browsers making some modes and maps complete ghost towns.[/QUOTE] I dont really have a huge issue with cooldowns, its just that by using them as their exclusive method to regulate ability usage they limited themselves pretty severely in the design stage, causing heroes to feel less diverse overall. Tf2 for example has a few cooldowns, but mostly thing are used as you want and that adds a lot to gameplay feeling smooth and allows characters to be more varied.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50455933]It's a skill based team shooter with a meta and close to zero RNG when it comes to actual gameplay. What exactly makes you think this is a game you should play in bursts ? Every gameplay mechanic indicates otherwise. [editline]4th June 2016[/editline] And why should a multiplayer game, a game designed to be played for literally hundreds of hours, not be sold for 60 bucks ? Multiplayer games are some of the most intense time sinks in the industry, next to RPGs.[/QUOTE] By your logic CSGO cannot be played in bursts which is downright retarded. Most people play a round or two and that's it. That's a burst.

At least it's better than TF2 with it's giving you boxes you can't open, I guess.

The only thing I dislike about Overwatch's microtransactions is the gambling loot box thing even if you pay real money. But I guess Valve paved the way for that. [I]Thanks Valve.[/I]

[QUOTE=rndgenerator;50455968]By your logic CSGO cannot be played in bursts which is downright retarded. Most people play a round or two and that's it. That's a burst.[/QUOTE] Your complaints are pointless though you're not being impacted. [editline]4th June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Mattk50;50455955]I dont really have a huge issue with cooldowns, its just that by using them as their exclusive method to regulate ability usage they limited themselves pretty severely in the design stage, causing heroes to feel less diverse overall. Tf2 for example has a few cooldowns, but mostly thing are used as you want and that adds a lot to gameplay feeling smooth and allows characters to be more varied.[/QUOTE] so many things in OW wouldn't work without cooldowns. Mei without cooldowns? Broken. Genji? Symmetra? Really, every character becomes broken and OP at that point I think the CD's is one of the ways they gave themselves to tweak balance as the game grows.

With (usually overpriced) season passes are starting to becoming more common with games these days I rather have these type of microtransactions than having a season pass split up the community. Overwatch and Halo 5 have the right idea for funding their DLC/content updates, and in Halo 5's case also fund HCS. Only issue with Halo 5's packs is that they do have items that affect the Warzone game mode, but you gain currency so fast you'll always have a steady supply of weapons and vehicles to use while not having to use real money.

[QUOTE=Magikoopa24;50455735]Haven't watched the video yet, but I did listen to the podcast where he shared his opinion- while I do agree that these types of microtransactions are the most harmless of them all, I can't say I agree in having them in a AAA release, even at a budgeted 40 bucks. Sure, I totally get that MTs are done to support characters and maps in the future, but I'd like to believe that 7 million copies sold, on top of the fact that Blizzard has a series of already successful properties (as well as being owned by goddamned Activision), would be enough to support the entire game for several years to come. Overall, I'm not too strong against this type of microtransaction, but I never thought to see TB and his crew defend them so vehemently. Maybe there's a Blizz Bias, I dunno :v:[/QUOTE] It's cosmetics. You LITERALY don't need to buy them, and you only DO buy them if you really want to, but they don't really give you any upgrade. It's the same as cosmetics in dota or csgo, or the cosmetics in cod games. Complaining about those is just stupid. Paid characters, maps, better services and anything else that you might actually see as real content that users can enjoy and play instead of bullshit to look at however, isn't a nice thing. It's just being a money grubbing greedy cunt feeding off of the players that can pay for that stuff, for whatever upgrade it gives or whatever it unlocks. It's the only good thing Valve does nowadays. We get a fuckton of cosmetics, of which loads of people don't give a fuck about, but that fuels Valve's pockets, and for that, we end up having free shit from them. Although they did ruin TF2...

Eh, stuff like this is basically a way for devs to make extra money post sale without impacting the game in the slightest and I'm all for that.

i don't agree with people saying "but they're just cosmetic" if blizzard is getting extra money from skins, they're going to focus more on skins instead of gameplay content, as skins are what'll keep them making money on the game see: tf2

[QUOTE=Untouch;50456296]i don't agree with people saying "but they're just cosmetic" if blizzard is getting extra money from skins, they're going to focus more on skins instead of gameplay content, as skins are what'll keep them making money on the game see: tf2[/QUOTE] I don't get this argument. Are level designers going to work on skins? It only happened to TF2 because the majority of the gameplay devs abandoned it.

I really like having something to look forward to each level. Getting a new skin also ends up making me play that hero more, at least for a bit. The fact that others can just buy the shit does not affect me at all.