This is a tricky subject and I'm not sure if it can be boiled down to a neat package of "leave your kids to their own devices"
I had a bunch of paragraphs dividing up the video but I still don't know how I stand on this other than: Parents using their kids as some sort of "example" or putting up a show of them are nasty and are basically ruining childhoods / risking great harm for them. I can also sort of agree that nurture only goes so far - some parts of a person are immutable (barring extreme cases).
It's also further complicated by 2 big things
1. We don't actually know if there's really adverse effects or not from taking hormones (esp. puberty blockers for children.) Currently doctors suspect it to be safe, but the large amounts of data needed to know that just isn't there.
here's a little reading: [url]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/when-transgender-kids-transition-medical-risks-are-both-known-and-unknown/[/url]
2. Likewise we can't know if kids can be trusted on this. Surprisingly the answer seems to be leaning towards no, but I've only seen one study linked by tudd of all people so hey. I'm looking for it and I'll link it if I find it.
edit: found it: [url]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2697020/[/url]
I've wanted to speak my piece on this for a while. I think it's fairly simple and I'm sorry if I offend.
Parents shouldn't scan their kids for this (I doubt progressives brainwash their kids into being trans. That's a lunatic idea) excessively, just.. help and guide like parents do.
But since the[B] treatment and procedures[/B] of being trans is linked to physical and sexual development, I think putting one's willing and eager kids on hormones [B]before they can legally provide consent[/B] is a poor idea, just like any other sort of drug.
However, I can understand why it might be seen as "this is a mental illness, hormones is the treatment" but that's not something I personally believe. It's complicated.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52509545]2. Likewise we can't know if kids can be trusted on this. Surprisingly the answer seems to be leaning towards no, but I've only seen one study linked by tudd of all people so hey. I'm looking for it and I'll link it if I find it.
edit: found it: [url]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2697020/[/url][/QUOTE]
I mean, would you trust your kid to do other things? It's strange to think that when it comes to gender identity, suddenly kids are perfectly trusted, despite the fact that kids often change what they like and go through big behavioural changes throughout their childhood.
In the UK, you can change your name at the age of 16 by deed poll, because if you let people younger than that do it, we'd end up with online usernames becoming real names. I think the best way is just to wait till people are old enough to make a mature enough decision as to what they want to be identified as, or what they want to be in general
I said this in the other thread, but I think the controversy in this subject comes from this balance of "needs to be young enough to subvert puberty" and "needs to be old enough to fully understand the consequences".
On one end, you have people like that one guy in the OP who killed himself. And on the other end of the spectrum you have stuff like this [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/MorbidReality/comments/2i41zw/suicide_note_of_a_transgender_women/]this[/url], I'm sure if she transitioned at an early age she wouldn't have been nearly as suicidal (if at all).
On one hand forcing your version of identity politics on your children is fucking stupid and should be against the law.
On the other hand letting your kid choose which gender they are is also fucking stupid, a decision of that magnitude cannot be left up to a child.
How can your child make a decision that will impact the rest of its life when they don't even know the value of a dollar yet?
What I'm trying to say is children have an extremely limited capacity in their understand of pretty much everything. They are also extremely impressionable and that leaves them vulnerable to parents who want to suggest that they are a certain gender, or no gender because of their own fucked up political views.
Fuck that, no thanks, leave the children the fuck out of it!
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52509610]I mean, would you trust your kid to do other things? It's strange to think that when it comes to gender identity, suddenly kids are perfectly trusted, despite the fact that kids often change what they like and go through big behavioural changes throughout their childhood.
In the UK, you can change your name at the age of 16 by deed poll, because if you let people younger than that do it, we'd end up with online usernames becoming real names. I think the best way is just to wait till people are old enough to make a mature enough decision as to what they want to be identified as, or what they want to be in general[/QUOTE]
Names are mutable things that can be changed on a whim, they aren't us. Your sense of self and what you are really isn't like that though. So that's not exactly a great comparison.
So I do think youth transitions should be researched more until we can find some more conclusive information; because it would make trans people's lives much easier if we're able to confirm it and offer treatment when they're younger.
Your sense of gender could very easily be mutable as a kid, though. It becomes immutable with development and figuring out who you are, and when that time comes, that will be the time to decide. It's highly unfortunate that HRT doesn't work as well at later ages, but I still think it's more logical to not let a child who is still learning basic skills try to decide this for themself
We just don't understand the brain/mind well enough to be so damn sure about treatments. An absolute shit ton of research and work needs to be done, and it's going to take a long time to do it too.
[QUOTE=djjkxbox;52509820]Your sense of gender could very easily be mutable as a kid, though. It becomes immutable with development and figuring out who you are, and when that time comes, that will be the time to decide. It's highly unfortunate that HRT doesn't work as well at later ages, but I still think it's more logical to not let a child who is still learning basic skills try to decide this for themself[/QUOTE]
Well I mean that's what research is for. It could be for children for all we know.
The one study I linked does imply that it is, but you need more than just one study to be able to claim something as reliable knowledge.
I think, provided they don't show adverse effects, the puberty blocking hormones are good means of allowing a child who is unsure of their gender the extra time required for them to make such an important decision, without dulling the effectiveness of HRT should they choose to go through with it.
I didn't show any signs of being trans other than the occasional crossdressing that I kept to myself and thoughts of "I wonder...?" It wasn't until I was learning about puberty in school that first started feeling wierd, female puberty was amazing but male puberty was really weird/scary to me, getting bigger and growing a beard just didn't sit right, eventually this got worse but I tried to shrug it off because I was taught everyone gets worried and scared. I was around 10 or 11 at the time
I kept it to myself, along with my habits of cd or w.e until being caught by my sister and mum. It wasn't until I about 13/14 I actually read about and learned about transgender-ism (from here actually, so thanks FP!) and when I was about 15/16 it started to click that, I might fall into that category then I broke down in tears to my mum and dad and had to explain that it wasn't just a thing I liked to do.
I agree with everything she said, these ideas that kids are trans are way dangerous to be making permanent commitments for, if your kid wants to dress one way let them, if they want to dress the other let them. If they're not doing anyone any harm whats the issue but this "You don't have a gender" shit is way to complicated, half the people I talk to can't understand the idea of me wanting to dress and act as a girl never mind the absence of a gender. So how could a child?
But maybe some kids really do know they are trans, then allow them to do as they want but take them to a professional. Explain the potential consequences, not to scare them but to help them understand the importance of such a decision.
I dunno if anything here made sense but I figured I have a bit of a better understanding when it comes to trans stuff.
Just as a last note, the first time I was caught my mum asked me directly, "Do you want to be a girl?" and just out of confusion and surprise of the question I quickly said no and its still one of my biggest regrets lmao
tl:dr
Kids know what they like, if its not hurting them or anyone else let them do it but don't make Billy take HRT because he wanted to wear dresses when he was 4
I'm just scared that one day a kid is going to transition and go through the depression and hell I've been through and still deal with when it could've been avoided with some education
/rant
sorry for the wall
[editline]26th July 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rufia;52509850]I think, provided they don't show adverse effects, the puberty blocking hormones are good means of allowing a child who is unsure of their gender the extra time required for them to make such an important decision, without dulling the effectiveness of HRT should they choose to go through with it.[/QUOTE]
The thing is, we don't know a lot of mental changes happen with puberty.
The person would need to be seeing a therapist regularly I think, I know its anecdotal but like I said I didn't show real signs of dysphoria until puberty actually started :/
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