Its got a point, you don't really see stealth only games often anymore, its now more often implemented as a feature to games.
assassin's creed games haven't changed since the first, it's always been about heavy action with some stealth
[QUOTE=JerryK;40661958]assassin's creed games haven't changed since the first, it's always been about heavy action with some stealth[/QUOTE]
there's been pretty much no stealth in ac, unless you count standing behind a wall so you can murder a guard as stealth
i don't really understand what the creators are trying to say.
they use hitman as an example, but that's something that's gone in the opposite direction - it went from a largely sandbox styled stealth game (via disguise usage) to one that encourages [I]hardcore[/I] stealth - ie, not being seen [I]at all[/I] in absolution (this changed what the game was about entirely)
honestly I don't even think games that are pure stealth are fun at all, the best "stealth" games are hybrids like the guy talked about - Deus Ex (human revolution pulls it off even better), elder scrolls, etc are all significantly more fun than thief was
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;40662160]You should try playing the Thief series.[/QUOTE]
did you even finish reading his sentence
[editline]16th May 2013[/editline]
also when the first assassin's creed was coming out, it was advertised as a "social stealth" game, something like hitman I suppose.
[editline]16th May 2013[/editline]
should've called it "sit in a pile of hay until guards leave stealth"
I found it hilarious when they showed clips from Splinter Cell: Blacklist and how agile Fisher was.
He's older as ever, but at the same time he is now somehow more agile than ever before also.
Funny how aging works.
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;40662160]You should try playing the Thief series.[/QUOTE]
thief is boring as fuck.
I just don't like the way games are handling Stealth now and days. Splinter Cell: Conviction being a good example. It was way too action oriented.
I didn't mind the fast paced-ness of it, but being able to target your enemies and instant kill them from anywhere in the room? That's just silly.
I would love to see a new game built around stealth.
Hybrid is the way to go. The element of choice makes stealthing so much more satisfying.
[QUOTE=splitsticks;40662603]Hybrid is the way to go. The element of choice makes stealthing so much more satisfying.[/QUOTE]
I'd agree and be happier about it if the stealth in those games wasn't so shallow.
Very few games can do stealth well enough in the "hybrid" games.
[QUOTE=Hullu V3;40662507]I found it hilarious when they showed clips from Splinter Cell: Blacklist and how agile Fisher was.
He's older as ever, but at the same time he is now somehow more agile than ever before also.
Funny how aging works.[/QUOTE]
Even in MGS4 Kojima wanted the stress system to affect snake because he was old.
I'd take a game, who's gameplay was an inch wide and a mile deep over a game that's a mile wide and an inch deep. So many games are pulling in so many features to appeal to so many demographics that in the end it's all a meaningless slog. Of course, if a developer actually managed to accomplish a mile wide, mile deep game, more power to them, but with the rising cost to produce games, that will not likely happen.
Well as hybrids I think Deus Ex human revolution or Skyrim did a pretty good job on their stealth aspects, Deus Ex particularly
Skyrim's stealth was laughable at best.
Deus Ex HR did a really good job but it could have been better. It was for the most part really well thought out, except for the boss fights, I actually ended up having to lug a [I]rocket launcher[/I] in my inventory as a non-lethal stealth character, saving it for the boss fights. Because a puny pistol I kept for utility wasn't good enough.
[QUOTE=splitsticks;40662603]Hybrid is the way to go. The element of choice makes stealthing so much more satisfying.[/QUOTE]
Very satisfying
Pretty much how I was playing Blood Dragon, sure I could kick in the doors and blast everybody to shit with a minigun and instantly score another base OR I could find a hidden way inside and take people down 1 by 1 with the bow and arrow which takes more time but is so fucking satisfying and tense to do
Even though I am a near godlike being with enough guns to kill everybody on Earth in Fallout New Vegas I still choose to stay hidden and quietly take out the people inside
Stealth is amazing
I found the stealth options in Far Cry 3 seriously lacking. There were very few opportunities for stealth melee takedowns, and you often had to ditch the stealth approach after one or two kills in favor of a guns-blazing approach.
The Thief series is spot-on in most places. A studio could earn untold millions by revamping it or adding a co-op option. Thief 2 has a half-working one, and it was incredibly fun despite being only half-working.
Splinter Cell Chaos Theory = Best stealth game.
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;40662160]You should try playing the Thief series.[/QUOTE]
have
enjoyed mgs1/2 better because while they were still primarily stealth they were fast paced
[editline]16th May 2013[/editline]
you realize too that i said in the very post that you just quoted that i've played them right
i think stealth games can be really tense, much more so than action games, but i think the first 3 mgs games did the best job of merging stealth and action
To truly experience the stealth of mgs one has to play it on hard or extreme. On normal you can just gun everyone down without having to worry about being stealthly.
I miss when games like Splinter Cell were being made, where the whole core gameplay was all about being truly stealthy.
Splinter Cell Chaos Theory was I feel, the last true stealth game to have been made, I haven't played a game yet that has really captured the essence of being stealthy, unseen and unheard like that game has.
Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay did stealth pretty good too, but Chaos Theory really deserves the title.
The talking lady looked very nice
I think I'm gonna go play some Pandora Tomorrow now.
The issue I have is that games that focus directly on stealth (Thief and Splinter Cell are really the only true stealth games I've ever played), are designed very well for stealth with level design, gameplay feautures and even story - while games that give you the option to be stealthy not only lack in level design and story, but the stealth featurues and gameplay of the games feel incomplete, cut down or just plain worse.
I love stealth games because they can be just as tense, exciting and scary as horror games while at the same time just as satisfying as action games. They usually also provide good replay value or make for great challenge runs, for example if you want to speed-run and not kill anybody or wipe out a whole level without using your guns etc.
[editline]17th May 2013[/editline]
I heard they're working on a new Thief game though right? Have to wait for that and see.
Blacklist is shaping up to be a very good hybrid, much like Absolution ended up being.
Pure stealth games are generally boring and involve a lot of retrying until you can get past one area undetected, which can get frustrating eventually. Dishonored was a really good example of a great hybrid, so wasn't DX: HR. Dishonored's only problem was that they didn't provide enough ways to go non-lethally. You had your pricey knock out darts and you had choke out, nothing more. The game become a whole lot of "hide, blink behind a guard, choke him, repeat", unless you went for a no touch playthrough, which was then "hide, blink, repeat".
Also the game was way too easy on hard mode.
looking forward to Blacklist, and possibly Thief if they present it as more of a hybrid like Deadly Shadows was (not saying the game should be at all like Deadly Shadows, I'm just saying it should be pushed in a more choice-based direction. Obviously with a game with the title "Thief", you can't present every level having the ability to kill, but I'd like to have some degree of freedom past "sneak hide steal repeat")
[editline]16th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=MrBluesy;40670554]The issue I have is that games that focus directly on stealth (Thief and Splinter Cell are really the only true stealth games I've ever played), are designed very well for stealth with level design, gameplay feautures and even story - [b]while games that give you the option to be stealthy not only lack in level design and story, but the stealth featurues and gameplay of the games feel incomplete[/b], cut down or just plain worse.
I love stealth games because they can be just as tense, exciting and scary as horror games while at the same time just as satisfying as action games. They usually also provide good replay value or make for great challenge runs, for example if you want to speed-run and not kill anybody or wipe out a whole level without using your guns etc.
[editline]17th May 2013[/editline]
I heard they're working on a new Thief game though right? Have to wait for that and see.[/QUOTE]
someone hasn't played Hitman Absolution or Deus Ex Human Revolution :v:
seriously, if you are making claims like that I'd HIGHLY suggest picking either of them up.
[QUOTE=MrBluesy;40670554]The issue I have is that games that focus directly on stealth (Thief and Splinter Cell are really the only true stealth games I've ever played), are designed very well for stealth with level design, gameplay feautures and even story - while games that give you the option to be stealthy not only lack in level design and story, but the stealth featurues and gameplay of the games feel incomplete, cut down or just plain worse.
I love stealth games because they can be just as tense, exciting and scary as horror games while at the same time just as satisfying as action games. They usually also provide good replay value or make for great challenge runs, for example if you want to speed-run and not kill anybody or wipe out a whole level without using your guns etc.
[editline]17th May 2013[/editline]
I heard they're working on a new Thief game though right? Have to wait for that and see.[/QUOTE]
Someone should make a proper full stealth survival horror game. Now that would be something truly brick shitting. Although many horror games do have partial stealth elements, including Silent Hill.
Tenchu is one of my favorite underrated games, and certainly the most underrated stealth game.
Did anyone play Tenchu Z? It sucks it was Xbox exclusive. Tenchu Z is probably one of the best stealth games IMO, even though the stealth aspect isn't as refined as say Splinter Cell, it's more arcady like Metal Gear Solid.
[editline]17th May 2013[/editline]
Here is some gameplay of it [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUOcQucsMpk[/media]
Man I want to play this game again...
Dishonored was the single easiest stealth game I have ever played, even on the hardest difficulty. It's not even worth mentioning in my opinion.
Ironically, I felt that Far Cry 2 to have great stealth that worked very well. I've set up ambushes and raids by carefully planning everything I've done. Far Cry 2 is one of the best games I've played in that regard, I always feel so tense when playing, like every action I make matters because one slip-up means almost certain death.
Then there are the levels in Thief 2. No game I have ever played before had such awesome level design. I've never felt more like I was participating in genuine heists. Both First City Bank and Trust and Life of the Party are among the greatest levels in video game history for me.
[editline]16th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mikkelmann;40663805]
The Thief series is spot-on in most places. A studio could earn untold millions by revamping it or adding a co-op option. Thief 2 has a half-working one, and it was incredibly fun despite being only half-working.[/QUOTE]
hi what
[editline]16th May 2013[/editline]
Also I don't care about pure stealth games or hybrid stealth games anymore. If the game just plays well as a stealth game, I'm happy. If a pure stealth game has shitty stealth, then I don't like it. If a hybrid game with stealth has shitty stealth, then I also don't like it. Like with Thief 4, if it's a hybrid I won't give a shit as long as the stealth behaves the same way or even better than it did in its predecessors.
The whole "let the player pick" thing becomes really over saturated very quickly. Genres are genres for a reason. The only game I can think of in recent memory that did this well was Deus Ex HR. Played the entire thing non-lethal and it worked great.
[editline]16th May 2013[/editline]
Also, the original Blacklist gameplay made me drink bleach. After seeing this though it seems to be shaping up a lot better.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9SvRX-8pZ4[/media]
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