Maajid Nawaz's Blazing Row With Muslim Woman Who Refuses Condemn Beating Women - General

[media]https://youtu.be/LR7IdYx29V4[/media] I think this guy brings up fantastic points about reforming Islam into the modern world. It is a shame that this guy is labeled by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a "Anti-Islamic Extremist" despite being muslim himself.

So reforming Islam is out of the window? Even the victim is not willing to condemn parts of the holy scripture.

[QUOTE=CarnolfMeatla;52354567]So reforming Islam is out of the window? Even the victim is not willing to condemn parts of the holy scripture.[/QUOTE] It is going to be reformed by Saudi Arabia, and the GCC. [URL="http://vision2030.gov.sa/en"]http://vision2030.gov.sa/en[/URL] There fucking tired of war in middle east, and wan't it to be economically prosperous, and also that means not letting us interfere anymore unless asked.

[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;52354756]It is going to be reformed by Saudi Arabia, and the GCC. [URL="http://vision2030.gov.sa/en"]http://vision2030.gov.sa/en[/URL] There fucking tired of war in middle east, and wan't it to be economically prosperous, and also that means not letting us interfere anymore unless asked.[/QUOTE] Your link actually doesn't mention any cultural change. Unless you just think passive global trading counts, but that is a cop-out considering most places don't regress unless shit really hits the fan.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52355013]Your link actually doesn't mention any cultural change. Unless you just think passive global trading counts, but that is a cop-out considering most places don't regress unless shit really hits the fan.[/QUOTE] In order to do that a Reformation HAS to take place. Did you see the list of demands for in which SA had a subtle recognition of Israel?

[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;52355073]In order to do that a Reformation HAS to take place. Did you see the list of demands for in which SA had a subtle recognition of Israel?[/QUOTE] You might wanna link directly to it. I've searched around and can't find that, even used the built-in search engine. How subtle were you even talking about this recognition in the first place? I do find plenty of statements talking about ensuring Islam is the center of how to live their lives with conservative values and scriptures mentioned. The only reformation of any kind mentioned is economic as far as I can tell.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52355119]You might wanna link directly to it. I've searched around and can't find that, even used the built-in search engine. How subtle were you even talking about this recognition in the first place? I do find plenty of statements talking about ensuring Islam is the center of how to live their lives with conservative values and scriptures mentioned. The only reformation of any kind mentioned is economic as far as I can tell.[/QUOTE] Found it, [URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-plan-society-idUSKCN0YU1KE"]http://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-plan-society-idUSKCN0YU1KE[/URL]

[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;52355229]Found it, [URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-plan-society-idUSKCN0YU1KE"]http://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-plan-society-idUSKCN0YU1KE[/URL][/QUOTE] Well that is all good, but none of that was on the website so really there was no way to find it unless it is just not on the english page. Also still wondering where the Israel bit is since you mentioned it. Either way, I am happy that SA is reforming, even if slowly. I am also happy this guy exists.

[QUOTE=CarnolfMeatla;52354567]So reforming Islam is out of the window? Even the victim is not willing to condemn parts of the holy scripture.[/QUOTE] you just watched a Muslim asking another Muslim to consider rising above certain parts of the Quran and compared it to Christian and Jewish reformations..?

"It's wrong unless the Quran said it."

[QUOTE=CarnolfMeatla;52354567]So reforming Islam is out of the window? Even the victim is not willing to condemn parts of the holy scripture.[/QUOTE] Islamic reformation has happened throughout centuries. It's just that any progress done has been thrown out the window the past century.

[QUOTE=Omilinon;52355977]Islamic reformation has happened throughout centuries. It's just that any progress done has been thrown out the window the past century.[/QUOTE] Naw, i'm willing to say that the last real islamic reformist was Sulimon. Thing is, islam's highest "virtue" is submission to god, and god's proxies in the quaran and the hadith. No matter how much you do to reform an islamic society, you always run the risk of it sliding right the hell back into it's pit, because to buy into islam, you by nature have to buy into the absolute authority of the holy books. Which is how Al-Ghazali was able to basically single handedly end the islamic golden age by saying "Science doesn't real because stuff only happens because god makes stuff happen". At which point the whole culture rejected science and enlightenment and slid back into Quranic literialism, where it's stuck to this day. The bee hive has been provoked in the last century, sure. But to say that somehow the culture and society has gotten markedly worse, i don't agree. Although you could [I]maybe[/I] make the case that rejecting the hadith outright and focusing strictly on the early parts of the quaran before old uncle 'mo's warlord adventures could be an avenue for reformation, there's still enough horrors in the latter half of even the quaran that the regression back to where we already are, or worse, is still the most likely outcome.