• [YongYea] Ex CD Projekt Red Devs Speak Out Against Studio's Mismanagement
    26 replies, posted
[video]https://youtu.be/AynvqY4cN8M[/video]
Even the heroes need supervision, or else they will stagnate and fall.
[QUOTE=coolgame8013;52874645]Even the heroes need supervision, or else they will stagnate and fall.[/QUOTE] they were never heroes to start with. this is just more proof that cdprojekt were always fucking vile from the start
[QUOTE=9millmeeter;52875110]they were never heroes to start with. this is just more proof that cdprojekt were always fucking vile from the start[/QUOTE] Why do people worship companies like they're individuals? You're setting yourself up to feel like this. [editline]a[/editline] A corporation isn't a human and it's stupid to see people project personas onto them. Why are they "heroes", because you like their products? They become "villains" when you don't like their products anymore? Same with Valve/EA/Disney/etc.
Its why I don't like Hideo Kojima, the man has always had a team following him and they're just as skilled if not more so. But its always 'Hideo Kojima', the weirdly fetishistic nature of this industry with shit like this terrifies me.
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;52875128]Why do people worship companies like they're individuals? You're setting yourself up to feel like this. [/QUOTE] childish naïveté and personification of an entity they don't fully understand
[QUOTE=SunsetTable;52875190]Its why I don't like Hideo Kojima, the man has always had a team following him and they're just as skilled if not more so. But its always 'Hideo Kojima', the weirdly fetishistic nature of this industry with shit like this terrifies me.[/QUOTE] I mean to be fair Kojima is known for being very direct and specific about what he wants, much more so than other game developers. And he definitely leaves his mark for better or worse.
[QUOTE=DinoJesus;52875261]I mean to be fair Kojima is known for being very direct and specific about what he wants, much more so than other game developers. And he definitely leaves his mark for better or worse.[/QUOTE] That still doesn't change the fact that a lot of talented workers basically get overshadowed.
[QUOTE=SunsetTable;52875190]Its why I don't like Hideo Kojima, the man has always had a team following him and they're just as skilled if not more so. But its always 'Hideo Kojima', the weirdly fetishistic nature of this industry with shit like this terrifies me.[/QUOTE] What do you think happens in film? The hundreds of people who make a film happen don't get as much credit as the name, think "Speilberg".
[QUOTE=SunsetTable;52875285]That still doesn't change the fact that a lot of talented workers basically get overshadowed.[/QUOTE] At the very least, the talented folks gets their name put all over every trailer related with Hideo Kojima. [IMG]http://i.neoseeker.com/n/5/mgsvkojima_display.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=SunsetTable;52875190]Its why I don't like Hideo Kojima, the man has always had a team following him and they're just as skilled if not more so. But its always 'Hideo Kojima', the weirdly fetishistic nature of this industry with shit like this terrifies me.[/QUOTE] I actually wish auteurship like that was more common. There's a tangible lack of direction in most games, and having a single person or small group of people serving as a beacon for the rest of the team isn't inherently bad. Besides, in your basic AAA company of hundreds if not thousands of devs, how are people supposed to be credited for their work other than slapping their name somewhere in the endless end credits? Your only other option is to do what everyone does, just hide everyone behind the company's logo so that they can go "yeah, I'm a Respawn employee, I made Titanfall 2, go me," even if all that person did was some particle effects for bullet impacts or something. I don't think that person would actually mind too much if they got to brag about making bullet impacts in [i]A Hideo Kojima Game[/i] instead.
[QUOTE=9millmeeter;52875110]they were never heroes to start with. this is just more proof that cdprojekt were always fucking vile from the start[/QUOTE] Why are every one of your posts like this?
[QUOTE=PaChIrA;52875668]Why are every one of your posts like this?[/QUOTE] Anxiety.
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;52875128]Why do people worship companies like they're individuals? You're setting yourself up to feel like this. [editline]a[/editline] A corporation isn't a human and it's stupid to see people project personas onto them. Why are they "heroes", because you like their products? They become "villains" when you don't like their products anymore? Same with Valve/EA/Disney/etc.[/QUOTE] I tend to think of them as being similar to AI. They exist with a goal of making money and pursue that by whatever means they can, often doing unacceptable things without realizing because a corporation is not a person with a conscience. The human element of companies has an impact sometimes, when a high ranking person does something because it's right as opposed to business sense, as well as PR backlash, but ultimately there's not much reason to love or begrudge a developer. Like I hate Valve and want them to stop almost everything they're doing, but as long as they do that then I won't hold a lasting grudge against them. Even though I would consider them as they are now to be the actual worst company in gaming history. It's not like a person where it's even entirely the same person throughout it's whole existence. Individuals and executives are constantly shifting, the people responsible for shit EA did that you hated might not even [I]work[/I] there anymore. Similarly, I like that Yacht Club so far has displayed a high ethical standard, delivering a full and complete kickstarter game with tons of extras that are typically cut out and sold back to the player in other titles. But if they don't do that in the future then I'm not going to feel like my friend stabbed me in the back, I'll be upset over it but it's a company being a company.
If a video came out saying the same shit about Bethesda people would be screaming to drag Todd Howard out have him crucified and have the studio for ever closed. [sp] I know Todd isn't the CEO [/sp] But because CDPR made Witcher 3 they could probably fuck kids and get away with it.
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;52875128]Why do people worship companies like they're individuals? You're setting yourself up to feel like this.[/QUOTE] Because companies are still a name, with actual people behind the scenes driving it forward. Using your own example, Gabe and Valve were synonymous years ago, with recently Gabe only showing up for the token CEO appearance, then radio silence with occasional stuff like Artifact happening. When I talk about a studio, or company, I'm pretty much talking about the people behind it, AS a collection. I subscribe to the ideal that groups of people are often greater as a whole then individually - great work fosters great work.
[QUOTE=SpearmintSheep;52875966]If a video came out saying the same shit about Bethesda people would be screaming to drag Todd Howard out have him crucified and have the studio for ever closed. [sp] I know Todd isn't the CEO [/sp] But because CDPR made Witcher 3 they could probably fuck kids and get away with it.[/QUOTE] Grind as a whole is seen by people ( [I]who are not in the managerial position[/I] ) as a terrible thing regardless of who is doing it. CDProjekt Red cannot get away with that, and I highly doubt anyone else will get away with it as well.
[QUOTE=SunsetTable;52875285]That still doesn't change the fact that a lot of talented workers basically get overshadowed.[/QUOTE] how is it any different from a company name? do you want every game to feature the full dev list on the posters?
[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;52876226]how is it any different from a company name? do you want every game to feature the full dev list on the posters?[/QUOTE] It's more that people got tired seeing Kojima's name 206 times in MGSV (by my calculations at least, I'm probably missing dozens more)
[QUOTE=SunsetTable;52875190]Its why I don't like Hideo Kojima, the man has always had a team following him and they're just as skilled if not more so. But its always 'Hideo Kojima', the weirdly fetishistic nature of this industry with shit like this terrifies me.[/QUOTE] This is hardly a game industry problem... This is a people problem. Why do you think celebrities get paid more than the artists who shoot, edit, vfx, etc... Why do you think Kim Kardashian and her family has such a huge following? Why do people become raving lunatics when a youtuber does even one thing they don't agree with. People are obsessed with other people, mostly because they're not accomplishing great themselves. Since the dawn of time we'be looked to heroes of mythology because we hope that one day we can be heroes ourselves.
[QUOTE=omarfr;52876780]This is hardly a game industry problem... This is a people problem. Why do you think celebrities get paid more than the artists who shoot, edit, vfx, etc... Why do you think Kim Kardashian and her family has such a huge following? Why do people become raving lunatics when a youtuber does even one thing they don't agree with. People are obsessed with other people, mostly because they're not accomplishing great themselves. Since the dawn of time we'be looked to heroes of mythology because we hope that one day we can be heroes ourselves.[/QUOTE] People are very insecure in general and want attention. When you have entire society of people like that, it breeds more insecurity because insecure people try to make themselves look better at the cost of others or even themselves. In general, it's an endless circle jerk. How many people do you pass by every single day and make eye contact with? Most people seem to have their heads down on their phones or with head up and away in the clouds, away in their own world trying to forget their issues, not being ready to face their reality. The more you face your reality and expose yourself to scrutiny, the more grounded and secure you might become, it makes people who they are and breaks. People look up to well known celebrities and they want their success, it's jealousy and admiration, even hate. Public figures are often seen as very outgoing, advertising luxurious vip lifestyle, something most people wish they could have. The more successful you are, the more people will look up to you. Someone like Hideo Kojima is a brand name right now, people know his games are successful, and he himself, puts himself into the spotlight to advertise his projects, at this point you expect nothing less but class and quality. You trust his instinct and his expertise will lead to something great. Having his name on a product is a seal of quality.
[QUOTE=imMonkeyGOD;52875311]At the very least, the talented folks gets their name put all over every trailer related with Hideo Kojima. [IMG]http://i.neoseeker.com/n/5/mgsvkojima_display.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] This is why it's harsh to hate on the man himself. Look at how many roles the dude has in making his games, it's a fuck ton. He has huge input on everything, more than most individuals do in other games. Kojima is hardly egoistical, it's just the biggest roles like designer, writer, producer are all done by the same man.
[QUOTE=coolgame8013;52876218]Grind as a whole is seen by people ( [I]who are not in the managerial position[/I] ) as a terrible thing regardless of who is doing it. CDProjekt Red cannot get away with that, and I highly doubt anyone else will get away with it as well.[/QUOTE] Except this is how eastern european development tends to be done, so not only will they "get away with it", it's pretty much tuesday in that part of the world.
[QUOTE=27X;52877369]Except this is how eastern european development tends to be done, so not only will they "get away with it", it's pretty much tuesday in that part of the world.[/QUOTE] A lot of studios are breaking away from crunch, and the desire to NOT have crunch is easily seen by how many people are leaving to work at indies - it's universally hated by basically everyone, in any industry, ever. Crunch WAS the norm in the games industry, but it [I]shouldn't[/I] be, and many developers are changing it for the better.
[QUOTE=SunsetTable;52875190]Its why I don't like Hideo Kojima, the man has always had a team following him and they're just as skilled if not more so. But its always 'Hideo Kojima', the weirdly fetishistic nature of this industry with shit like this terrifies me.[/QUOTE] And he has extremely talented people in his team aswell. Yoji Shinkawa's art is (imo) [b]the very pinacle[/b] of quality. Kojima Productions as a whole (obviously) crafted absolute masterpieces in each and every branch they touched.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;52877403]A lot of studios are breaking away from crunch, and the desire to NOT have crunch is easily seen by how many people are leaving to work at indies - it's universally hated by basically everyone, in any industry, ever. Crunch WAS the norm in the games industry, but it [I]shouldn't[/I] be, and many developers are changing it for the better.[/QUOTE] You're not telling me anything I haven't experienced, and yes crunch is bullshit, and people like Ken Levine and Chris Taylor have actually factually proved it's bullshit. None of that changes the culture of these particular developers, they learned how to make games in crunch and had their greatest success(es) in crunch, so getting them to abandon it with a snap of the fingers isn't going to happen. Same for Japan. The reason japanese art and animation assets tend to be light years ahead is not because they're secret pixel wizards of the black arts, it's because they put in a metric fuckton of hours getting it perfect. It's not a practice, it's an ethic.
[QUOTE=27X;52878343]It's not a practice, it's an ethic.[/QUOTE] It's a crutch, and a horrible, unneeded practice. If you can't get something done in a timeframe without it costing your employee's work life balance, then you need to budget your time better.
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