I know Rhett and Link are targeted at kids / young teens, but damn some of their videos are great to watch.
I'm a 23 year old dude and I have no shame in saying I enjoy their shit. Some of their videos are crap though, and the bit at the end with that wheel I just skip entirely cause it's pretty dumb.
[editline]28th December 2015[/editline]
Also, whilst I feel rehabilitation is important, I think giving max sec prisoners who've been convicted of murder / rape sentences in prisons like that is wrong.
They should be rehabilitated, but not in a five-star fucking location.
[QUOTE=loopoo;49405077]I know Rhett and Link are targeted at kids / young teens, but damn some of their videos are great to watch.
I'm a 23 year old dude and I have no shame in saying I enjoy their shit. Some of their videos are crap though, and the bit at the end with that wheel I just skip entirely cause it's pretty dumb.
[editline]28th December 2015[/editline]
Also, whilst I feel rehabilitation is important, I think giving max sec prisoners who've been convicted of murder / rape sentences in prisons like that is wrong.
They should be rehabilitated, but not in a five-star fucking location.[/QUOTE]
if giving these prisoners a good standard of living in prison while rehabilitating them means that they run a lower chance of committing crimes when they are released, should we not give similar prisoners the same treatment purely out of "moral" reasons?
iirc, here in finland we got a somewhat similar setup, with prisons not being just concrete cells with barred windows. however, in contrast to these sites which seem a bit too tacky and pampering, finnish prisons are more like average hotels.
[QUOTE=Hugg;49412961]if giving these prisoners a good standard of living in prison while rehabilitating them means that they run a lower chance of committing crimes when they are released, should we not give similar prisoners the same treatment purely out of "moral" reasons?[/QUOTE]
Honestly the luxury shown here seems really foreign in America not just because our prison system is shit, but rapists and murderers are basically stuck in prison for life. Its really rare here for someone convicted of either crime to be released, so for Americans it seems like the biggest waste of tax money.
The goal of reintegration into society after a prison sentence by caring for the prisoners is something I think everyone likes in theory, however it seems really foreign seeing it put in practice.
If these are all locked up criminals then [I]surely[/I] everyone outside of those walls lives in accommodation that is at least equal to if not vastly better. That's my whole problem with this.
People who have done nothing wrong live in accommodation that is not as good as this, hell we already have the problem here where people keep commuting petty crimes so they get send to Prision just so they have a roof over their head and food to eat, i don't dare begin to think what'd happen if we had prisons like that over here.
[QUOTE=Hugg;49412961]if giving these prisoners a good standard of living in prison while rehabilitating them means that they run a lower chance of committing crimes when they are released, should we not give similar prisoners the same treatment purely out of "moral" reasons?[/QUOTE]
I don't know, real life is hard. I might be inclined to commit crimes if it meant going back to one of these places if things weren't going so well. There's certainly no deterrent to committing crimes if this is where you go
[QUOTE=PelPix123;49416483]People don't need a deterrent from committing crimes, they just need to not have reasons to commit crimes.
In general, crimes aren't something you naturally do and need to be deterred from, they're something you're forced to do because you're out of options.[/QUOTE]
As someone who was I guess a "criminal" in their teenage years I can personally tell you don't do it because you have to do it. Honestly I find it more of has to do with how you were raised and who you were raised around.
Not every drug dealer or mugger is a crook with a heart of gold, more often than not they do the things they do because in their eye's it isn't seen as bad as it is to the "norm".
Rehabilitation is cool and all but if someone had just murdered someone in my family and I know they're getting sent off to holiday camp luxury hotel supereme I'd be fucking pissed
As long as they are being rehabilitated, I seriously don't give a shit.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;49416154]I don't know, real life is hard. I might be inclined to commit crimes if it meant going back to one of these places if things weren't going so well. There's certainly no deterrent to committing crimes if this is where you go[/QUOTE]
You forget to take into account just how important freedom is. I'm sure a cushy apartment and all that seems great, but I'd take freedom over being kept caged anyday.
Some days I just want to go out and travel, you wouldn't get that in prison - no matter how comfortable it is. I think that'd be psychologically fuckey.
[QUOTE=loopoo;49418551]You forget to take into account just how important freedom is. I'm sure a cushy apartment and all that seems great, but I'd take freedom over being kept caged anyday.
Some days I just want to go out and travel, you wouldn't get that in prison - no matter how comfortable it is. I think that'd be psychologically fuckey.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but they know they'll get out eventually. In the meanwhile it's a break from society and the problems of their current lives in an environment that incentivizes healthy and peaceful life.
Criminal people have the same access to mental healthcare and education outside of prison too, but those people tend to have criminal friends, abusive relatives or other social factors that make it difficult if not impossible.
Getting used to cooking, sports, studying and working in a peaceful environment will probably have a huge positive impact on their lives when they get out.
wow their life in prison is already better than my life outside
[QUOTE=loopoo;49418551]You forget to take into account just how important freedom is. I'm sure a cushy apartment and all that seems great, but I'd take freedom over being kept caged anyday.
Some days I just want to go out and travel, you wouldn't get that in prison - no matter how comfortable it is. I think that'd be psychologically fuckey.[/QUOTE]
Criminals dont care about freedom. When they choose to commit crimes or murder they know they're going to either get caught and sent to prison or get killed. They have accepted that their fate in prison and still committed to crime.
[QUOTE=mark6789;49418961]Criminals dont care about freedom. When they choose to commit crimes or murder they know they're going to either get caught and sent to prison or get killed. They have accepted that their fate in prison and still committed to crime.[/QUOTE]
yeah let's ignore the 99% of criminals who think they can get away with it, hence why they tried it in the first place
you don't rob a bank or store and think "yeah I'm probably gonna get locked up for the rest of my life or killed", you rob it and think "god damn how awesome will it be to get away with all this cash"
Understandably for a lot of people in different cultures it might be seen as excessively luxurious, and If I was a victim of a crime, my gut reaction might tell me that the perpetrator should rot in an empty cell somewhere. But as far as rehabilitating goes, you'd have to be pretty out of touch to claim that this isn't one hell of a lot better than the privatized rape dungeons that is the American prison system.
Statistically speaking in relation to it's population, Norway has a very small percentage of incarcerated citizens, as well as a miniscule amount of crime in general compared to the United states. So, obviously this is better?
[QUOTE=Tobylol;49419137]privatized rape dungeons that is the American prison system[/QUOTE]
A bit excessive?
[QUOTE=mark6789;49418961]Criminals dont care about freedom. When they choose to commit crimes or murder they know they're going to either get caught and sent to prison or get killed. They have accepted that their fate in prison and still committed to crime.[/QUOTE]
there's no way you actually believe this
a world where criminals commit crimes knowing that they're definitely going to get caught for it
[editline]30th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Tobylol;49419137]Understandably for a lot of people in different cultures it might be seen as excessively luxurious, and If I was a victim of a crime, my gut reaction might tell me that the perpetrator should rot in an empty cell somewhere. But as far as rehabilitating goes, you'd have to be pretty out of touch to claim that this isn't one hell of a lot better than the privatized rape dungeons that is the American prison system.
Statistically speaking in relation to it's population, Norway has a very small percentage of incarcerated citizens, as well as a miniscule amount of crime in general compared to the United states. So, obviously this is better?[/QUOTE]
the problem is that there's a set of scales to balance here
rehabilitation vs retribution
one half of criminal justice is making sure that people don't commit again by resolving the problems that might have caused it (poor upbringing, poor area etc), and the other half is retribution for the crime they committed (the sense of 'getting what is due'). One side can't work without the other - if you commit to retribution then you end up with a system which causes disenfranchised elements to remain disenfranchised (american system) and don't solve anything, if you commit to rehabilitation you disenfranchise victims and distort perceptions of the justice system.
it's a balancing act that no justice system has ever managed to get right i think
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49419199]
the problem is that there's a set of scales to balance here
rehabilitation vs retribution
one half of criminal justice is making sure that people don't commit again by resolving the problems that might have caused it (poor upbringing, poor area etc), and the other half is retribution for the crime they committed (the sense of 'getting what is due'). One side can't work without the other - if you commit to retribution then you end up with a system which causes disenfranchised elements to remain disenfranchised (american system) and don't solve anything, if you commit to rehabilitation you disenfranchise victims and distort perceptions of the justice system.
it's a balancing act that no justice system has ever managed to get right i think[/QUOTE]
In my opinion the retributional aspect should play zero part in forming a prison system. I think the concept of "getting what is due" as you put it has to be reevaluated as it doesn't really benefit any societal progression.
I'm not saying I don't think dangerous people should be locked away for a long time. I just believe that the conditions of their incarceration should be based on what's best for all parties involved, in a logical sense. This doesn't include a victims desire for vengeance, as those feelings are pretty irrational and shouldn't be taken into account in any juridical situation.
[QUOTE=PelPix123;49416483]People don't need a deterrent from committing crimes, they just need to not have reasons to commit crimes.
In general, crimes aren't something you naturally do and need to be deterred from, they're something you're forced to do because you're out of options.[/QUOTE]
Why wasn't the crime rate extremely low in the past, where people had limbs amputated or were crucified for crimes?
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