Why the Sochi Olympics are the most expensive in history - General

[video=youtube;R_MBOeqSYVk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_MBOeqSYVk[/video] It's like we're back in the Soviet Union again

I think it's bullshit that there are people who honestly say that Soviet times were better.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;43810800]I think it's bullshit that there are people who honestly say that Soviet times were better.[/QUOTE] For quite a few people it is true though. Many outlying areas were industrialized for the production/harvesting of things ranging from crops to mining. Under the Soviet Union, these places were supplied with resources like building materials and heating fuels. After the collapse, that infrastructure vanished, and there are countless impoverished shitholes that have become much more isolated; lacking the means to produce many things that were supplied under the Union. Lets not even get into the dangerous compounds that were left all over the place. For example, when a family member was working in the area around Kazakhstan, they found a town where a huge portion of the water table was massively contaminated with Arsenic because of an abandoned factory several miles up the stream. These people literally didn't have potable water, and you can directly tie the reason to the collapse. It wasn't like this sort of thing was an uncommon occurrence either.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;43810800]I think it's bullshit that there are people who honestly say that Soviet times were better.[/QUOTE] They were. After the collapse, everything that was bad about the Soviet Union managed to get about ten times worse. And every thing good about it has entirely disappeared due to new-age capitalism, corporatism, and faux-democracy.

[QUOTE=Melnek;43811109]They were. After the collapse, everything that was bad about the Soviet Union managed to get about ten times worse. And every thing good about it has entirely disappeared due to new-age capitalism, corporatism, and faux-democracy.[/QUOTE] Maybe for the people in villages/industrial or mining cities. In the big established cities life is better now than back then.

[QUOTE=ionuttzu;43811139]Maybe for the people in villages/industrial or mining cities. In the big established cities life is better now than back then.[/QUOTE] Not in the slightest. Just because everything looks all shiny and there's post-modern architecture all over the place doesn't mean life is better. It's still the same exact pile of shit that was formed in the 90's but sprayed over with 00's chrome to make it look better. It's still shit though. At least in Soviet times there was no homelessness. There were also virtually no empty and unused apartments in the cities: any flat where nobody was registered was immediately lent by the state at symbolic price to others who needed better living conditions. If a person who had permanent registration could not pay for shelter, nobody had right to evict them, only to demand money through a court.

[QUOTE=Melnek;43811109]They were. After the collapse, everything that was bad about the Soviet Union managed to get about ten times worse. And every thing good about it has entirely disappeared due to new-age capitalism, corporatism, and faux-democracy.[/QUOTE] Not exactly true though, not immediately. Things were getting better, a lot of industry and social stuff were carefully preserved during the 90s. Everything this country has suffered during 80s and 90s was ready to be redeemed in 2000s. Money accumulated, economy getting stronger, the oil prices jumping up, all of that, it would've been a diffirent country. Look at how fast we were to build infrastructure for everything this country lacked durin Soviet Union, mobile phone networks, internet communications, satellite networks etc. But then Putin and his utter lack of skill happened. Nowhere near fit for presidency he was "intended" to be little more than a talking head for people who had some actual expertise and experience. Yes it was faux democracy from the start, but it wasn't intended to stay that way, it was a crisis management. Would it be actual democracy, people who were raised by Soviets would've just elected commies back in and nothing would happen. The economy was at stake.

[QUOTE=Melnek;43811187]Not in the slightest. Just because everything looks all shiny and there's post-modern architecture all over the place doesn't mean life is better. It's still the same exact pile of shit that was formed in the 90's but sprayed over with 00's chrome to make it look better. It's still shit though. At least in Soviet times there was no homelessness. There were also virtually no empty and unused apartments in the cities: any flat where nobody was registered was immediately lent by the state at symbolic price to others who needed better living conditions. If a person who had permanent registration could not pay for shelter, nobody had right to evict them, only to demand money through a court.[/QUOTE] You're in Israel, how the fuck do you know so certainly how life in the russian cities is?

[QUOTE=ionuttzu;43811273]You're in Israel, how the fuck do you know so certainly how life in the russian cities is?[/QUOTE] What is being born in Russia and living there for 20 years before coming to Israel What is being in touch with relatives and friends from Russia What is being well-informed on how my home country is doing What is visiting that country every summer and winter What is being on the internet, the largest source of information you could ask for about anything. Silly question.

So is there anything positive to say about Russia ever? I mean I as an Estonian am incredibly biased but to me it just seems like Russia as a whole has never done anything good.

[QUOTE=EcksDee;43811341]So is there anything positive to say about Russia ever? I mean I as an Estonian am incredibly biased but to me it just seems like Russia as a whole has never done anything good.[/QUOTE] Yeah? [img]http://www.military-today.com/firearms/akm_l6.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Melnek;43811187]Not in the slightest. Just because everything looks all shiny and there's post-modern architecture all over the place doesn't mean life is better. It's still the same exact pile of shit that was formed in the 90's but sprayed over with 00's chrome to make it look better. It's still shit though. At least in Soviet times there was no homelessness. There were also virtually no empty and unused apartments in the cities: any flat where nobody was registered was immediately lent by the state at symbolic price to others who needed better living conditions. If a person who had permanent registration could not pay for shelter, nobody had right to evict them, only to demand money through a court.[/QUOTE] Can you take your myths somewhere else please? No homelessness - yes, because there were laws against it. You could not become "homeless" in Soviet union, you either had a place to live and a job soviets gave you (which could happen to be shit and unpaid, that happened a lot) or you were prosecuted for parasitism. We're A LOT fucking better now. We finally had rights to control our lives for fuck's sake. All of a sudden we could express ourselves freely. If you ask me, is it worth it to be able to control your life over some people being left out of state care? I would say that it isn't in any way connected. One is a basic human right, while another is a problem we will eventually fix. Don't compare that. The fact that some people were better off back then doesn't justify the horrible conditions we were put into. 90s weren't fuckin paradise, but it was progress, even if it was terrible. But why it had to be terrible? Because otherwise Soviet economy would've eventually collapsed under the weight of it's debts, both inner and outer debts. It's the inevitable cost we had to pay for "just" conditions for everyone (except party, of course, they didn't forget themselves).

That's not exactly what I meant by good but fair enough

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;43811361]Yeah? [img]http://www.military-today.com/firearms/akm_l6.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] "[B]Russia as a whole[/B]" not one russian man.

[QUOTE=EcksDee;43811341]So is there anything positive to say about Russia ever? I mean I as an Estonian am incredibly biased but to me it just seems like Russia as a whole has never done anything good.[/QUOTE] Russia was always dicks to everyone around them. Eastern Europe would've been so much better if the USSR didn't exist.

[QUOTE=Toyhobo;43811424]"[B]Russia as a whole[/B]" not one russian man.[/QUOTE] What's "Russia as a whole". I don't think any "country as a whole" ever done anything, not just good or bad, but anything at all. It's always men or women.

[QUOTE=gudman;43811498]What's "Russia as a whole". I don't think any "country as a whole" ever done anything, not just good or bad, but anything at all. It's always men or women.[/QUOTE] well i mean we landed on the moon, i guess you could say that was a pretty communal thing we also have DARPA, they're pcool

[QUOTE=gudman;43811498]What's "Russia as a whole". I don't think any "country as a whole" ever done anything, not just good or bad, but anything at all. It's always men or women.[/QUOTE] By russia as a whole I mean hearing about how good life in russia is. Like everyone gets treated equally and well and shit no everything is "corruption this" and "heinous human rights violations that" [editline]6th February 2014[/editline] Sure every country has that you could say but god its like Russia ONLY has that.

[QUOTE=Toyhobo;43811424]"[B]Russia as a whole[/B]" not one russian man.[/QUOTE] An interesting culture. Beautiful art, architecture, literature, music, etc. An eventful History that has had an effect on the whole world. A unique people.

[QUOTE=gudman;43811375]Can you take your myths somewhere else please? No homelessness - yes, because there were laws against it. You could not become "homeless" in Soviet union, you either had a place to live and a job soviets gave you (which could happen to be shit and unpaid, that happened a lot) or you were prosecuted for parasitism. We're A LOT fucking better now. We finally had rights to control our lives for fuck's sake. All of a sudden we could express ourselves freely. If you ask me, is it worth it to be able to control your life over some people being left out of state care? I would say that it isn't in any way connected. One is a basic human right, while another is a problem we will eventually fix. Don't compare that. The fact that some people were better off back then doesn't justify the horrible conditions we were put into. 90s weren't fuckin paradise, but it was progress, even if it was terrible. But why it had to be terrible? Because otherwise Soviet economy would've eventually collapsed under the weight of it's debts, both inner and outer debts. It's the inevitable cost we had to pay for "just" conditions for everyone (except party, of course, they didn't forget themselves).[/QUOTE] Except it's not myths. There was no homelessness in Soviet Union not because it was illegal, but the other way around. Homeless people were so few and far in between that they simply made it illegal because in order to have a sheltered residence, you had to have a propiska. And a propiska was something everybody had to have, so if you didn't have one, that's basically like walking around without an ID. There is virtually no reason for you not to have one made and you couldn't deny having one made without an official state confirmation. (which also subsequently cleared you of any 'parasitism' charges'.) When it comes to jobs given by the state that's entirely up for speculation because there are no statistics on such matters. One had a great job and the other less so. [quote]All of a sudden we could express ourselves freely.[/quote] You could express yourself freely back then, too, after Stalin died. You could express yourself all you wanted, it's just that nobody really cared much less the government. You want to know why? Because most were content with their situation. Had things been so awful you imply them to be, surely the population would at least try to show their unhappiness. And surely they wouldn't make Gorbachev out to be an asshole for ending the Soviet 'harsh times'. It doesn't add up, really. And the fact that you tried to alleviate 90's Russia like "it was bad, but not bad-bad." shows you know nothing of your own country of residence. Things weren't bad-bad, they were catastrophically, unfathomably, Africa-tier bad. This is usually what happens when you take a global superpower and turn it into a borderline third-world shithole practically overnight.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;43811534]well i mean we landed on the moon, i guess you could say that was a pretty communal thing we also have DARPA, they're pcool[/QUOTE] First artificial satellite. First man in space. First woman in space.

[QUOTE=EcksDee;43811341]So is there anything positive to say about Russia ever? I mean I as an Estonian am incredibly biased but to me it just seems like Russia as a whole has never done anything good.[/QUOTE] No. Russia has never done anything good. Ever. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Russian_innovation[/url] At all.

All great countries have major scientific miracles that can be attributed to them. I mean more on the society and human side of things.

Innovation comes from the society and the 'human side' of things. I have no idea what you want. Do you want a heart-warming video plastered together with cheery-picked 'feel-good' scenes to make you understand just how silly you sound? [video=youtube;MGEiA80ZL08]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGEiA80ZL08[/video]

How about doing the intelligent thing and attributing the things that go wrong to the people who are at fault, not to something as abstract and broad as a country.

Fair enough I guess i just hate russians from personal experience O WEL

[QUOTE=Melnek;43811187]Not in the slightest. Just because everything looks all shiny and there's post-modern architecture all over the place doesn't mean life is better. It's still the same exact pile of shit that was formed in the 90's but sprayed over with 00's chrome to make it look better. It's still shit though. At least in Soviet times there was no homelessness. There were also virtually no empty and unused apartments in the cities: any flat where nobody was registered was immediately lent by the state at symbolic price to others who needed better living conditions. If a person who had permanent registration could not pay for shelter, nobody had right to evict them, only to demand money through a court.[/QUOTE] Are you sure that you lived in the same Soviet Union that my parents lived in?

[QUOTE=Melnek;43811657]Except it's not myths. There was no homelessness in Soviet Union not because it was illegal, but the other way around. Homeless people were so few and far in between that they simply made it illegal because in order to have a sheltered residence, you had to have a propiska. And a propiska was something everybody had to have, so if you didn't have one, that's basically like walking around without an ID. There is virtually no reason for you not to have one made and you couldn't deny having one made without an official state confirmation. (which also subsequently cleared you of any 'parasitism' charges'.)[/quote] Yeah, and прописка essentially crippled your ability to move anywhere. I would agree that problem with actual homelesness (as in, people without a dwelling) were mostly solved by Kruschev and mass construction (oh that beautiful communal housing, grade A dwelling) but before that a lot of people were homeless due to horrible living conditions in barracks they lived in that no one ever fucking maintained. Those "artifacts" can still be found across the country. [quote]When it comes to jobs given by the state that's entirely up for speculation because there are no statistics on such matters. One had a great job and the other less so.[/quote] Yeah it kind of leaves it to anecdotes. Guess a lot of people in my familiy and my friends' families were just outa luck. [quote] You could express yourself freely back then, too, after Stalin died. You could express yourself all you wanted, it's just that nobody really cared much less the government. You want to know why? Because most were content with their situation. Had things been so awful you imply them to be, surely the population would at least try to show their unhappiness. And surely they wouldn't make Gorbachev out to be an asshole for ending the Soviet 'harsh times'.[/quote] Yeah, people tried to express their discontent a lot. Novocherkassk is how they were answered. I wonder why it happened so rarely. And that "express yourself all you want", yeah. Don't tell that to anyone though. Some people might get offended. Like those "enemies of the state" guys, and especially their families. Or those who were missing out on a lot of social shit "enjoyed" by general population due to saying something bad. Also article 70 in Soviet Criminal code. [quote] It doesn't add up, really. And the fact that you tried to alleviate 90's Russia like "it was bad, but not bad-bad." shows you know nothing of your own country of residence. Things weren't bad-bad, they were catastrophically, unfathomably, Africa-tier bad. This is usually what happens when you take a global superpower and turn it into a borderline third-world shithole practically overnight.[/QUOTE] Yeah, superpower that could not sustain it's own economy. That's how it all happened. Yeah. You'd think superpower is something more stable than what has crumbled "overnight" and turned into borderline third-world shithole. Guess not. Blackouts is also something that happens a lot in superpowers. And total deficit. And food shortages. And goods shortages. And queues everywhere for everything. Rations. Idiotic propaganda.

[QUOTE=strazyyy;43811939]Are you sure that you lived in the same Soviet Union that my parents lived in?[/QUOTE] I thought the topic at hand was post-Soviet Russia, not the Baltic states. In which case my point still stands but only at half a leg, because as much as I have heard of how bad things were in Soviet times from Balts, I have also heard of many who made a perfectly good living and had no qualms with the post-Stalin regime.

[QUOTE=Fort83;43811675]The olympic games are a joke.[/QUOTE] fixed Also russia sucks.