Dark Souls II Critique - General

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UScsme8didI[/media] Ain't watched it as I'm waitin' on PC release, but I'll share this since nobody else has.

I love watching matt's reviews/critical looks at games that are usually really loved. He looks at details that I never even noticed. I wish I had his kind of eye for these things.

[QUOTE=Fourm Shark;44603538]Sounds like a double edged sword to be honest. I sometimes look into things enough to where the flaws, no matter how minute, stand out so blatantly in my mind it almost ruins it for me.[/QUOTE] I do that and in the end, it just makes me appreciate the good games even more.

Can't help but agree with most of his points there.

I'll watch this at a later point when I can set aside the time, but somehow I expect him to bring up dead ends and the transition between Earthen Peak and Iron Keep.

[QUOTE=Jojje;44605560]I'll watch this at a later point when I can set aside the time, but somehow I expect him to bring up dead ends and the transition between Earthen Peak and Iron Keep.[/QUOTE] its kind of a valid point. a lot of what dark souls 2 does is try to incorporate (or harken back to?) elements of demon's souls and dark souls and mesh it all together, which doesn't work in their favor. demon's souls only made since because the nexus was a large hub that allowed you to freely teleport between the places in boletaria. and for some reason they thought it was appropriate to mix that with dark souls 2 actual physical transitions. it is a small point though...

wtf how did i not notice iron keep is right above earthen peak until now that is incredibly jarring and hilarious now that i think about it. the thing about the path to drangleic castle is even funnier.

[QUOTE=Karahaut;44605589]its kind of a valid point. a lot of what dark souls 2 does is try to incorporate (or harken back to?) elements of demon's souls and dark souls and mesh it all together, which doesn't work in their favor. demon's souls only made since because the nexus was a large hub that allowed you to freely teleport between the places in boletaria. and for some reason they thought it was appropriate to mix that with dark souls 2 actual physical transitions. it is a small point though...[/QUOTE] Yeeeah. It kinda just seems like everything is disjointed. I still think I like Demon's Souls best. There's just such an air of dread and oppression, especially in the Valley of Defilement.

Things like a rubble pile blocking the shrine and the Harvest Valley -> Iron Keep transition might not be big functional problems, but they are problems. When you have a lot of people talking about how those things took them out of the game and broke their sense of a consistent world, something the Souls series is valued for, there's something wrong there. The real point though is that they're indicative of the schizophrenic design that permeates the game as a whole.

I think ds2 is easily the worst in the series. I know I won't be day one purchasing the next in the series. funny that if this video existed and was posted in ds general 2 weeks ago it would've probably got different responses

[QUOTE=Pinut;44605825] funny that if this video existed and was posted in ds general 2 weeks ago it would've probably got different responses[/QUOTE] I think with other hyped up games proving to be a bit of a disappointment like GTA5 (more online than the actual game), people are slowly learning not to defend a flawed game to death as much.

Those ridiculous turn while attacking animations are what irritated me the most. I died a lot from the lost sinner thinking I was safe to attack only for him to do a 180 in the middle of a swing One thing I think he failed to mention was how pointless the hollowing mechanic was when you can just get a ring to get most of your health back, it pretty much defeated the purpose.

[QUOTE=Saxon;44605945] One thing I think he failed to mention was how pointless the hollowing mechanic was when you can just get a ring to get most of your health back, it pretty much defeated the purpose.[/QUOTE] In Demon's souls it made sense because it took up one of two ring slots, which made a pretty big difference in combat. But you have 4 ring slots in DkS2 so it's a pretty small inconvenience. That design just doesn't really add up.

[QUOTE=Saxon;44605945]Those ridiculous turn while attacking animations are what irritated me the most. I died a lot from the lost sinner thinking I was safe to attack only for him to do a 180 in the middle of a swing One thing I think he failed to mention was how pointless the hollowing mechanic was when you can just get a ring to get most of your health back, it pretty much defeated the purpose.[/QUOTE] I think I prefer the Demon's Souls/Dark Souls II approach to punish dying. If you die twice in a row in Dark Souls, you lose all your souls, and after that, you basically have nothing else to lose, so you can just keep dying and dying and dying. The DeS/DaSII system gives you yet another reason to stay alive and not throw caution to the wind.

[QUOTE=Jojje;44606007]I think I prefer the Demon's Souls/Dark Souls II approach to punish dying. If you die twice in a row in Dark Souls, you lose all your souls, and after that, you basically have nothing else to lose, so you can just keep dying and dying and dying. The DeS/DaSII system gives you yet another reason to stay alive and not throw caution to the wind.[/QUOTE] even then, aside from the health loss, there is a ring that you can get pretty early (3 hours in, or less) that works just like the ring of sacrifice, only when it breaks you can repair it for a measly 3k souls. some design elements clash really hard with the game they were trying to make. i like dark souls 2, but i'll be first to say its really broken.

I probably won't buy this again for PC unless they at least resolve some of the terrible design choices they made for PVP

I love his videos but this one felt like he was being way too harsh. Keep in mind I haven't even played Dark Souls 2 but he contradicts himself numerous times and it's really odd. He complains that bonfires are too close to boss doors, and how demons/dark1 made you run a gauntlet to get back when there's just hallways in 2... then a few minutes later he complains that there aren't any shortcuts straight to the boss and they make you run a gauntlet in some places. Stuff like Solaire as well, in the first game I recall it being implied that he created the great lighting spear miracle- so shouldn't the item description continue to reference that? There's a ton of connections to the first game so getting mad at a brief, vague mention of solaire is really banal. Also I heard the cat tells you about the stone covenant if you talk to it enough, discrediting another statement. I dunno, this just seems all over the place in quality.

[QUOTE=Sift;44606145]I love his videos but this one felt like he was being way too harsh. Keep in mind I haven't even played Dark Souls 2 but he contradicts himself numerous times and it's really odd. He complains that bonfires are too close to boss doors, and how demons/dark1 made you run a gauntlet to get back when there's just hallways in 2... then a few minutes later he complains that there aren't any shortcuts straight to the boss and they make you run a gauntlet in some places. Stuff like Solaire as well, in the first game I recall it being implied that he created the great lighting spear miracle- so shouldn't the item description continue to reference that? There's a ton of connections to the first game so getting mad at a brief, vague mention of solaire is really banal. Also I heard the cat tells you about the stone covenant if you talk to it enough, discrediting another statement. I dunno, this just seems all over the place in quality.[/QUOTE] The gauntlets suck because they're just a bunch of the same enemies moshed together in a big hallway that can easily be sidestepped. Anor Londo had problems, but the knights could all be fought pretty much 1 on 1 if you were careful. I mean, seriously, who the fuck honestly fought all of the enemies in the black gulch every fucking time they died? I didn't even fight them once, I just blues brothers'd my way through every time, Think of it this way. Would "praise the sun!" be a thing in this game if it wasn't a meme? I never heard from Shalquoiqxzoa about mechanics. She'll sometimes tell you snippets of lore and where certain things are, but never how things actually work. Play the game for yourself. I'm as much a fan of From and the souls series as you're likely to find, and I still can't disagree with these points. It's not like Dark Souls 1 was perfect, but it's flaws didn't impact the core of what made it feel so unique and engrossing. DS2 has traded a few gameplay foibles for a gutted and hollow(hehu) game world, and comes out being far less than it's predecessor despite arguably being a better designed experience overall.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44606317]The gauntlets suck because they're just a bunch of the same enemies moshed together in a big hallway that can easily be sidestepped. Anor Londo had problems, but the knights could all be fought pretty much 1 on 1 if you were careful. [B]I mean, seriously, who the fuck honestly fought all of the enemies in the black gulch every fucking time they died? I didn't even fight them once, I just blues brothers'd my way through every time,[/B] Think of it this way. Would "praise the sun!" be a thing in this game if it wasn't a meme? I never heard from Shalquoiqxzoa about mechanics. She'll sometimes tell you snippets of lore and where certain things are, but never how things actually work. Play the game for yourself. I'm as much a fan of From and the souls series as you're likely to find, and I still can't disagree with these points. It's not like Dark Souls 1 was perfect, but it's flaws didn't impact the core of what made it feel so unique and engrossing. DS2 has traded a few gameplay foibles for a gutted and hollow(hehu) game world, and comes out being far less than it's predecessor despite arguably being a better designed experience overall.[/QUOTE] There's a second bonfire in Black Gultch.

[QUOTE=Pinut;44605825]I know I won't be day one purchasing the next in the series.[/QUOTE] well that's pretty silly tbh, even if it isn't necessarily DkS1 quality it's still gonna be way better than most AAA games coming out

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;44606467]There's a second bonfire in Black Gultch.[/QUOTE] There is? The place is so short I never thought to look because in my mind, why the hell would there be one?

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;44606467]There's a second bonfire in Black Gultch.[/QUOTE] I killed the Rotten on my second go, so y'know :V After pre-patch Shrine of Amana I could pretty much roll through anything. I don't see how anyone could be killed by the Rotten's massive windup attacks, but that's another issue. Hell, each individual mace knight is easily a tougher fight than toxic avenger.

[QUOTE=Jojje;44606635]There is? The place is so short I never thought to look because in my mind, why the hell would there be one?[/QUOTE] there is also a shortcut right at the beginning of black gulch where you can skip the first tar pools and the worms (hand worm things?). at the beginning, with a torch, look over the cliff side on the right and you should see a dropdown area below that'll skip most of the black gulch.

[QUOTE=Karahaut;44606734]there is also a shortcut right at the beginning of black gulch where you can skip the first tar pools and the worms. at the beginning, with a torch, look over the cliff side on the right and you should see a dropdown area below that'll skip most of the black gulch.[/QUOTE] but the entire area is like a hundred feet long and you can literally just sprint through and never get hit

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44606746]but the entire area is like a hundred feet long and you can literally just sprint through and never get hit[/QUOTE] that's true but the path is pretty much 100% risk free. [editline]21st April 2014[/editline] i mean, you are still gonna get hit and probably slowed by the poison spitting statues. that doesn't happen with the shortcut.

Nitpick all you want but imo this is still one incredible game (not saying these complaints aren't legit)

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;44606317]The gauntlets suck because they're just a bunch of the same enemies moshed together in a big hallway that can easily be sidestepped. Anor Londo had problems, but the knights could all be fought pretty much 1 on 1 if you were careful. I mean, seriously, who the fuck honestly fought all of the enemies in the black gulch every fucking time they died? I didn't even fight them once, I just blues brothers'd my way through every time, Think of it this way. Would "praise the sun!" be a thing in this game if it wasn't a meme? I never heard from Shalquoiqxzoa about mechanics. She'll sometimes tell you snippets of lore and where certain things are, but never how things actually work. Play the game for yourself. I'm as much a fan of From and the souls series as you're likely to find, and I still can't disagree with these points. It's not like Dark Souls 1 was perfect, but it's flaws didn't impact the core of what made it feel so unique and engrossing. DS2 has traded a few gameplay foibles for a gutted and hollow(hehu) game world, and comes out being far less than it's predecessor despite arguably being a better designed experience overall.[/QUOTE] To be honest, you could "praise the sun" before even meeting Solaire- it's just easy to pin on him as the dude loves the sun. I watched a video at one point and the cat most certainly mentioned the stone offering greater challenges or insulting how meatheaded the members are or something. And I meant at one point in the video he said dark/demons was good because you had to replay the level while Dark 2 had just bonfire -> Hallway -> boss, then later in the video "This area made me replay the level and didn't shortcut me straight to the boss!" That's inconstant. I'd be dumb to praise a game I never played, I'm just saying this review seemed all over the place.

[QUOTE=Sift;44607275]To be honest, you could "praise the sun" before even meeting Solaire- it's just easy to pin on him as the dude loves the sun. I watched a video at one point and the cat most certainly mentioned the stone offering greater challenges or insulting how meatheaded the members are or something. And I meant at one point in the video he said dark/demons was good because you had to replay the level while Dark 2 had just bonfire -> Hallway -> boss, then later in the video "This area made me replay the level and didn't shortcut me straight to the boss!" That's inconstant. I'd be dumb to praise a game I never played, I'm just saying this review seemed all over the place.[/QUOTE] That doesn't tell you how it makes things more difficult, or what the penalties for leaving it are, which is the point. She doesn't tell you that joining it disables summons, for example. No, his point was that the game design logic is all over the goddamn place. There are shortcuts where there are warp points, and no short cuts where there are neither even when putting them there would be trivially easy.

Oh god, His point on multiple bosses a thousand times over. You aren't being fucking clever when you stick 5 gargoyles in a small area that 1) You can fall off but they cant 2) Can attack through each other 3) Has an actively hostile PVP zone right infront of it You aren't being clever when you stick 20 rats in a room with lock on mechanics equivalent to that of a N64 game. Warping absolutely ruined the tension of the game. After every boss fight I was 100% confident that there would be a bonfire less than a minute afterwards. I agree entirely on the fire tower. Once I had gone down both paths I was stunned by how little there was. Also has anyone actually determined whether or not adaptability does anything? I remember getting shat on for saying the game didn't clearly describe itself regarding it.

absolutely agree on the locking on enemies nonsense so many attacks do it for no fucking reason this guy is 100% correct on every point he made, and dark souls 2 is a colossal disappointment compared to DS1 and Demon's Souls.