I'd never thought I'd see Xexizy's videos on Facepunch off all places.
the original is better: [url]http://unitedchans.org/socialism-has-never-worked/[/url]
Oh my god this guy's pronunciation is horrific. "Bah-vah-rEE-uh", "Fry-Corps", Leeb-Kinect"
How does that even happen?
How exactly is this video about a bunch of short-lived socialist republics supposed to prove that socialism had ever worked?
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;50854763]How exactly is this video about a bunch of short-lived socialist republics supposed to prove that socialism had ever worked?[/QUOTE]
I think it's more to show that the successful ones are often crushed by external forces.
[QUOTE=elowin;50854828]I think it's more to show that the successful ones are often crushed by external forces.*[/QUOTE]
*May or may not include human nature
[QUOTE=elowin;50854828]I think it's more to show that the successful ones are often crushed by external forces.[/QUOTE]
The first duty of any country, whatever the size and regardless of its views on economics, religion or anything else, is to protect it from internal and external threats. If it can't do that then it has failed.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50855198]The first duty of any country, whatever the size and regardless of its views on economics, religion or anything else, is to protect it from internal and external threats. If it can't do that then it has failed.[/QUOTE]
How is it a country's fault if it's destroyed by the corruption from other countries? That's not exactly a fair standard. A small country could be an outright utopia with as good of a military as they are capable of having and they still won't be able to defend themselves if a huge country with a huge military tries to fuck them over.
[QUOTE=KorJax;50855149]*May or may not include human nature[/QUOTE]
Nice meme!
Human nature doesn't exit. People act and think differently based off of the material conditions theyre brought in. People are greedy and want to step over people because the material conditions of capitalism they grew up in taught them that, If people were brought in the material conditions of socialism, which puts more emphasis of social cooperation and such, theyll think like that instead.
[QUOTE=Idzo;50854664]I'd never thought I'd see Xexizy's videos on Facepunch off all places.[/QUOTE]
Xexizy said spread it to as much people as we could, so I did.
doesnt help the original is better, but atleast this helps get the message across to a broader audience, more than the anime visual novel thing
[QUOTE=elowin;50854828]I think it's more to show that the successful ones are often crushed by external forces.[/QUOTE]
...so they failed?
[QUOTE=J$ Psychotic;50855320]...so they failed?[/QUOTE]
They failed, but they didn't fail because of [i]socialism[/i]. They failed because people who didnt like socialism said "wtf we got to stop this!!!!" and attacked said socialist states the most they could. If said external forces didnt exist, said socialist states would of likely been much much more succesful judging by their track records during their existance
[QUOTE=J$ Psychotic;50855320]...so they failed?[/QUOTE]
The point is, it's not the ideology that failed them, it's, as he said, external forces.
[QUOTE=EdvardSchnitz;50855311]Nice meme!
Human nature doesn't exit. People act and think differently based off of the material conditions theyre brought in. People are greedy and want to step over [B]people because the material conditions of capitalism[/B] they grew up in taught them that, If people were brought in the material conditions of socialism, which puts more emphasis of social cooperation and such, theyll think like that instead.
[/QUOTE]
aaand your credibility's gone
[QUOTE=J$ Psychotic;50855320]...so they failed?[/QUOTE]
"Failing" implies they collapsed, not that an outside source destroyed them
You don't say your car failed if a drunk driver t-bones you and totals it, since it was working fine and would have continued to work fine if the other driver didn't destroy it
[QUOTE=J$ Psychotic;50855320]...so they failed?[/QUOTE]
What the fuck is that argument? Being destroyed by an invading force means your society doesn't work?
Native Americans have been living their own way for centuries, does being exterminated mean their mode of life wasn't sustainable?
If conquering other nations is a sign of a strong socio-economic system, how come empires end up collapsing eventually?
[QUOTE=hoodoo456;50855339]"Failing" implies they collapsed, not that an outside source destroyed them
You don't say your car failed if a drunk driver t-bones you and totals it, since it was working fine and would have continued to work fine if the other driver didn't destroy it[/QUOTE]
Oh my god, this is the best analogy I've ever seen.
Viel dank, Hoodoo.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;50855222]How is it a country's fault if it's destroyed by the corruption from other countries? That's not exactly a fair standard. A small country could be an outright utopia with as good of a military as they are capable of having and they still won't be able to defend themselves if a huge country with a huge military tries to fuck them over.[/QUOTE]
Sorry if it isn't 'fair', but it is reality. I personally like to live in reality rather than the socialist dream world.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50855432]Sorry if it isn't 'fair', but it is reality. I personally like to live in reality rather than the socialist dream world.[/QUOTE]
Why not make reality better then it already is?
hungarian soviet republic
lmao i haven't seen this much bullshitting since lenin told people that he was going to bring peace to russia.
the hungarian soviet republic committed acts of terror, then invaded neighbouring countries to reclaim the old borders of imperial hungary before they collapsed due to both invasion and lack of popular support
literally the only reason they got any support is because they promised to make hungary reconquer its old clay. they failed to do this and considering the economy was ruined and the ethnic minorities weren't actually protected it quickly folded
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50855446]hungarian soviet republic
lmao i haven't seen this much bullshitting since lenin told people that he was going to bring peace to russia.
the hungarian soviet republic committed acts of terror, then invaded neighbouring countries to reclaim the old borders of imperial hungary before they collapsed due to both invasion and lack of popular support
literally the only reason they got any support is because they promised to make hungary reconquer its old clay. they failed to do this and considering the economy was ruined and the ethnic minorities weren't actually protected it quickly folded[/QUOTE]
that's one of seventeen republics listed on this list. Yeah soviet hungary was shit, ill agree with you there. And I also heavily disagree with other nations on this list like Yugoslavia, but that doesnt mean the rest of the list invalidated.
[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50855332]The point is, it's not the ideology that failed them, it's, as he said, external forces.[/QUOTE] Couldn't you say the same thing about NatSoc?
[QUOTE=EdvardSchnitz;50855471]that's one of seventeen republics listed on this list. Yeah soviet hungary was shit, ill agree with you there. And I also heavily disagree with other nations on this list like Yugoslavia, but that doesnt mean the rest of the list invalidated.[/QUOTE]
actually most of the places on that list barely qualify as either being stable and sustainable societies or even being good places to live
[QUOTE=Episode;50855481]Couldn't you say the same thing about NatSoc?[/QUOTE]
National Socialism literally promoted the genocide of entire groups of people. Also, a lot of the economic prosperities of Not Socialism came from weimar programs that were working, Hitler just took his photo infront of a few roads and "WEW, WORKING NAZISM", it also depended heavily on stealing money from Jews they evicted and building military.
It more or less deserved to be destroyed by the entire world.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50855494]actually most of the places on that list barely qualify as either being stable and sustainable societies or even being good places to live[/QUOTE]
This is not an argument
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50855432]Sorry if it isn't 'fair', but it is reality. I personally like to live in reality rather than the socialist dream world.[/QUOTE]
...What? Look socialism is far from a perfect system and I don't think I would like it to be implemented either but the arguments I see so far are caricatural bullshit. Like really, if an attempt at using a certain system is suppressed by higher powers then it's a bad system?
[QUOTE=EdvardSchnitz;50855329]They failed, but they didn't fail because of [i]socialism[/i]. They failed because people who didnt like socialism said "wtf we got to stop this!!!!" and attacked said socialist states the most they could. If said external forces didnt exist, said socialist states would of likely been much much more succesful judging by their track records during their existance[/QUOTE]
I really doubt that, since the socialist states that did survive the external forces ended up failing because of socialism anyway and/or going back to capitalism
I do not see how anything of value was lost with the fall of these states.
[QUOTE=EdvardSchnitz;50855311]Nice meme!
Human nature doesn't exit. People act and think differently based off of the material conditions theyre brought in. People are greedy and want to step over people because the material conditions of capitalism they grew up in taught them that, If people were brought in the material conditions of socialism, which puts more emphasis of social cooperation and such, theyll think like that instead.
[/QUOTE]
You do realize these are essentialy 19th century psychological theories, right? A tad outdated if you ask me.
[editline]9th August 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=EdvardSchnitz;50855329]They failed, but they didn't fail because of [i]socialism[/i]. They failed because people who didnt like socialism said "wtf we got to stop this!!!!" and attacked said socialist states the most they could. If said external forces didnt exist, said socialist states would of likely been much much more succesful judging by their track records during their existance[/QUOTE]
Yes, socialism failed because people went "wtf we got to stop this!!!!". I hope you'll get your doctorate in history soon.
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;50855574]I really doubt that, since the socialist states that did survive the external forces ended up either failing because of socialism anyway and/or going back to capitalism
I do not see how anything of value was lost with the fall of these states.[/QUOTE]
If you mean China and the USSR.
The USSR failed because it became less socialist, the bloated bureaucracy, state capitalism, authoritarian regime and the terrible nightmare that was the soviet war in Afghanistan led to a multitude of events that led to its fall. Gorbie's reforms to make the USSR more capitalist broke the straw on the camels back.
China failed because of the kind of socialism it followed, Maoism, was so damn fragile it failed right after it was implented. Mao was a terrible statesman.
I don't see how two different kinds of socialism mean that all kinds of different forms of socialism were destined to fail.
I dream of living in a socialist society one day but until then, Capitalism it is. For better or worse.
[QUOTE=SirJon;50855594]You do realize these are essentialy 19th century psychological theories, right? A tad outdated if you ask me.
[editline]9th August 2016[/editline]
Yes, socialism failed because people went "wtf we got to stop this!!!!". I hope you'll get your doctorate in history soon.[/QUOTE]
The socialist societies listed here failed literally because the "wtf we got to stop this!!!". Also, how is this an argument
spoiler: it isnt
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