The New Country - Government-Backed Video Says Swedes Must Integrate With Migrants, Not The Reverse - General

A charity backed by the Swedish government has launched a campaign denouncing the assimilation of migrants and telling natives to “integrate” with foreign “cultures and languages”. “It’s time to realize the new Swedes will claim their space” an ad insists, describing the Nordic nation as a “safe space” for migrants and concluding: “There is no way back. Sweden will never be like it was.” [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LAwJDA_DB0[/media] I can't believe this is not a parody.

I want to wake up and get off this crazy ride.

Title post is a bit sensationalist. Video makes it clear that the focus is making sure everyone gets along and that even people with an extreme view of the superiority of their culture can handle living side-by-side in a multicultural world. A bit of a non-problem since Sweden is home to far more accepting people than some other countries, but since the refugee issue is bringing with it some legitimate problems for actual Swedes, to claim this video is some anti-Sweden stuff to destroy your culture is a bit extreme. This is targeting people who think anyone with brown skin, or who is a refugee, is potentially a rapist criminal; probably not a majority of Swedes, but a demographic nonetheless. Europe in general has a much more zealous perception of individual nation's cultures than we do in the US, because of the size of each nation and their histories, and we'd probably have less issues taking in refugees other than the general attitude towards the Middle East, so Sweden is running into crowding problems and a few cases of refugees with radically racist/bigoted beliefs co-mingling with ultra-progressive peoples that will turn their back on criminal offenses in the name of progress. I think the issue is a bit overblown though, and the video is far from being necessarily terrible.

In their own words: "Its not only new swedes that need to integrate, everyone needs to integrate, even established swedes integration is about finding mutual understanding" They've (untactfully) asked you to be understanding of foreign cultures that come over. Not a big deal and not anything new - when I was at secondary school I had to take Religious Education lessons where you learnt about different religions. At no point are there white Europeans in the video who are depicted integrating into Muslim culture by wearing a hijab or anything. They're not saying that.

"europe is changing and sweden is needed as a safe space for people who seek refuge" lol, with swedens housing queue, good luck

Do what you want Sweden, but don't expect your neighbours to follow.

[QUOTE=Tools;51154988]Do what you want Sweden, but don't expect your neighbours to follow.[/QUOTE] How daft do you have to be to assume that one private organization represents an entire country..

You guys don't Seem to have watched the video. They are saying that EVERYONE needs to be understanding ("it's not only New swedes that need to integrate, everyone needs to integrate even established swedes"). At no point does the video say that swedes have to act like doormats to foreigners.

Since when did /pol/ start leaking into Facepunch?

[QUOTE=ParoshWasHere;51155171]Since when did /pol/ start leaking into Facepunch?[/QUOTE] It's always been like that, you just didn't notice. FP is not a Safe Space. [editline]5th October 2016[/editline] Also, it's funny you say that, considering that Killuah, currently perma'd, was basically "/leftypol/'s ambassador on FP".

[QUOTE=Muggi;51155049]You guys don't Seem to have watched the video. They are saying that EVERYONE needs to be understanding ("it's not only New swedes that need to integrate, everyone needs to integrate even established swedes"). At no point does the video say that swedes have to act like doormats to foreigners.[/QUOTE] It basically says that swedes have to adapt their culture so that foreigners can feel at home. I don't want that. Integrating with lesser cultures is madness and I don't see why you'd want to "meet half way" with a culture that stones adulterers or discourages women from driving or what have you. It's not about being accepting, because if it were then this video is pointless as most forms of non-bigoted religious and cultural expression is allowed, accepted, and not really frowned upon in Sweden. No one cares if you're fasting, no one cares if you're not allowed to drink alcohol due to your religion. Going for a quick pray in the middle of the day might piss people off though, but that's not really because you're a Muslim. Ethnic Swedish Christians probably face a lot of the same discrimination Muslims do - the discrimination that is beyond skin color, of course.

[QUOTE=momoiro;51155207]It basically says that swedes have to adapt their culture so that foreigners can feel at home. I don't want that. Integrating with lesser cultures is madness and I don't see why you'd want to "meet half way" with a culture that stones adulterers or discourages women from driving or what have you. It's not about being accepting, because if it were then this video is pointless as most forms of non-bigoted religious and cultural expression is allowed, accepted, and not really frowned upon in Sweden. No one cares if you're fasting, no one cares if you're not allowed to drink alcohol due to your religion. Going for a quick pray in the middle of the day might piss people off though, but that's not really because you're a Muslim. Ethnic Swedish Christians probably face a lot of the same discrimination Muslims do - the discrimination that is beyond skin color, of course.[/QUOTE]the video says lets create a culture that is understanding and free from hate & fear, where does adapting stoning and discouraging women from driving come into that?

[QUOTE=kakizc;51154956]"europe is changing and sweden is needed as a safe space for people who seek refuge" lol, with swedens housing queue, good luck[/QUOTE] Don't forget they're evicting Swedes from their homes and building thousands more new housings - but these are only for the "refugees".

[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51155259]Don't forget they're evicting Swedes from their homes and building thousands more new housings - but these are only for the "refugees".[/QUOTE]are you saying that the applicants from syria, iraq & afghanistan are not refugees?

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;51155271]are you saying that the applicants from syria, iraq & afghanistan are not refugees?[/QUOTE] [i]"Refugee. a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster."[/i] If they traveled through all the no-war safe countries between Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan and aaaall the way to Sweden where you conveniently get the most social benefits in Europe, then yes they are not a refugees. They are instead economic immigrants. Especially when there have been reports of said refugees going to holiday in the country they said they fled from, or going back to the country they fled from because it is too cold or something else didn't suit them. Shelter and support have been offered throughout so many European countries they traveled through, but no they want to go to Sweden and Germany more then anything - can you guess why?

[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51155318][I]"Refugee. a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster."[/I] If they traveled through all the no-war safe countries between Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan and aaaall the way to Sweden where you conveniently get the most social benefits in Europe, then yes they are not a refugees. They are instead economic immigrants. Especially when there have been reports of said refugees going to holiday in the country they said they fled from, or going back to the country they fled from because it is too cold or something else didn't suit them. Shelter and support have been offered throughout so many European countries they traveled through, but no they want to go to Sweden and Germany more then anything - can you guess why?[/QUOTE]probably because the swedish are known to be welcoming to refugees and have a great laudible history of accepting them? and because germany openly called out for them to come there? maybe swedens great social benefits says something about your culture & that tolerance and support is somehow appealing to people escaping from war and victimization? just because they're going to a place that they believe will be accepting of them doesn't suddenly make them not refugees, how does your definition not apply? do you consider the refugees that are not in germany or sweden economic migrants? if you're escaping from a war why would you not go to the best place for yourself and your family? also people returning home for whatever reason doesn't change that there's other refugees who have made the decision not to go home, surely with the same point you could argue that the benefits you are giving to nations mustn't be that great if they want to return home cause it's too cold but that would be silly in context. there's also the [B]millions[/B] of other refugees from syria, iraq and afghanistan who have [B]not[/B] gone to sweden and germany. turkey has taken 2,800,000. lebanon has taken 1,500,000. jordan has taken 1,265,000. sweden has taken 110,333. maybe those 110,333 for some reason thought they could make a better lives to themselves, in a country that proudly seems accepting of them. if other EU nations (like mine for example) were like this maybe the potential strain of the refugees could be more spread out.

Yeah, this isn't bad in itself. It's just calling for people to be tolerant towards foreigners, exactly what critics of this campaign without a doubt fail to be. It isn't about converting to some foreign culture, just accept that people are different, not hate them for it and bridge the gap between different people. Anyway, all these campaigns end up as ammunition for the extreme right, regardless wheather they are actually reasonable or going too far.

[QUOTE=momoiro;51155207]It basically says that swedes have to adapt their culture so that foreigners can feel at home. I don't want that. Integrating with lesser cultures is madness and I don't see why you'd want to "meet half way" with a culture that stones adulterers or discourages women from driving or what have you. It's not about being accepting, because if it were then this video is pointless as most forms of non-bigoted religious and cultural expression is allowed, accepted, and not really frowned upon in Sweden. No one cares if you're fasting, no one cares if you're not allowed to drink alcohol due to your religion. Going for a quick pray in the middle of the day might piss people off though, but that's not really because you're a Muslim. Ethnic Swedish Christians probably face a lot of the same discrimination Muslims do - the discrimination that is beyond skin color, of course.[/QUOTE] no thats not what its saying at all

You are so entrenched in your anti-refugee rhetoric, that you completely ignored the actual message of the video. As expected.

Promoting acceptance and understanding is bad now, apparently. You manipulated what the video actually says in your head just to get something to be outraged about, I.E the exact same retarded shit SJW's do, good job

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;51155238]the video says lets create a culture that is understanding and free from hate & fear, where does adapting stoning and discouraging women from driving come into that?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=elowin;51155705]no thats not what its saying at all[/QUOTE] How do you come to a mutual understanding without making concessions? If we could have a mutual understanding with foreign cultures without changing our own culture, then this video wouldn't even exist. Now what's mutual understanding between Swedish culture and middle eastern culture? Segregated baths? Swedes don't particularly want this, but Muslims do; if they are to adapt then this video is useless as it's aimed towards swedes. So here's one concession we could make. Segregated school classes? Same as above, with the noted exception that some classes are actually segregated in high school, but not intentionally(my class was 100% male, for example). Restriction of freedom of speech? Swedes generally value their freedom of expression, while we don't frenetically defend it as much as freedom-loving Americans do. But we'd have to make some concessions here to please foreign cultures, e.g. Muslims - see outcry regarding Muhammad drawings. The specific example is a pretty easy concession to make as it doesn't really affect the daily life of most people, and you could possibly label the drawings as hate speech. But where does it stop? Removal of expectations to see the faces of teachers, bank clerks, etc? Basically religious clothing in public and in governmental institutions. This is allowed, so this concession has already been made. Non-pork products in the school cafeteria? This is already a thing, the adaption has been made. Removal of Christian traditions in the education system? This is a hot topic and has been for many years, some schools choose to have their graduation ceremonies in a local church, as tradition begs for. According to law it is, however, not allowed for this ceremony to have any actual Christian elements such as mass or prayer. Removing this tradition is a concession I think many Swedes would be willing to make, and one that Muslims would appreciate. I don't know if this rambling made any point, but what I want to make clear is that most reasonable cultural adaptions have already been made and Sweden already accepts foreigners and their cultures, as long as they don't infringe upon our rights. We don't even annul marriages between minors and adults as long as the marriage was legal when and in the location it took place! This video is either completely useless or it advocates for a removal or modification of Swedish traditions, values, and morals. Basically, we either keep the status quo and expect foreigners to adapt to Sweden and the culture that made Sweden prosper, or we make concessions that change Swedish culture in one way or another.

[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51155318][i]"Refugee. a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster."[/i] If they traveled through all the no-war safe countries between Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan and aaaall the way to Sweden where you conveniently get the most social benefits in Europe, then yes they are not a refugees. [/QUOTE] lol, the UN definition literally just requires them to flee from their country to escape persecution, this condition that they have to settle in a neighboring country is something you made up yourselves. :v: It won't suddenly become true because you repeat it in every opportunity.

[QUOTE=momoiro;51155889]How do you come to a mutual understanding without making concessions? If we could have a mutual understanding with foreign cultures without changing our own culture, then this video wouldn't even exist. Now what's mutual understanding between Swedish culture and middle eastern culture? Segregated baths? Swedes don't particularly want this, but Muslims do; if they are to adapt then this video is useless as it's aimed towards swedes. So here's one concession we could make. Segregated school classes? Same as above, with the noted exception that some classes are actually segregated in high school, but not intentionally(my class was 100% male, for example). Restriction of freedom of speech? Swedes generally value their freedom of expression, while we don't frenetically defend it as much as freedom-loving Americans do. But we'd have to make some concessions here to please foreign cultures, e.g. Muslims - see outcry regarding Muhammad drawings. The specific example is a pretty easy concession to make as it doesn't really affect the daily life of most people, and you could possibly label the drawings as hate speech. But where does it stop? Removal of expectations to see the faces of teachers, bank clerks, etc? Basically religious clothing in public and in governmental institutions. This is allowed, so this concession has already been made. Non-pork products in the school cafeteria? This is already a thing, the adaption has been made. Removal of Christian traditions in the education system? This is a hot topic and has been for many years, some schools choose to have their graduation ceremonies in a local church, as tradition begs for. According to law it is, however, not allowed for this ceremony to have any actual Christian elements such as mass or prayer. Removing this tradition is a concession I think many Swedes would be willing to make, and one that Muslims would appreciate. I don't know if this rambling made any point, but what I want to make clear is that most reasonable cultural adaptions have already been made and Sweden already accepts foreigners and their cultures, as long as they don't infringe upon our rights. We don't even annul marriages between minors and adults as long as the marriage was legal when and in the location it took place! This video is either completely useless or it advocates for a removal or modification of Swedish traditions, values, and morals. Basically, we either keep the status quo and expect foreigners to adapt to Sweden and the culture that made Sweden prosper, or we make concessions that change Swedish culture in one way or another.[/QUOTE]the video is probably aimed at people like lord m who declare refugees economic migrants, he literally said himself that the hundreds of thousands of refugees only came to sweden to leech welfare. is that mutual understanding? what viewpoint is he coming from when he's saying they've not fleed war or persecution? why is it that the vast majority of people who are applying for asylum happen to be from countries where there's currently war or societal breakdown? it's weird to bring up any of these concession stuff because the video isn't talking about that. it's about mutual understanding, which means values that swedes and whoever they are recieving both share aka probably stuff like respect for life, empathy for struggle, understanding of the need to help a fellow human being. what is the viewpoint lord m is taking when he watches a video with a few posititive humanistic sentences and then takes it to disparage literal refugees? is there not an ulterior motive there? does he really just care about the minutiae of migration based on economic reasons? the video makes no defense of conflicting cultures, the video makes no mention of anything you said other than talking about mutual understanding & creating a world that is free from hate. presumably there's many people with viewpoints in sweden that are anti-refugee, so charities who exist to protect these minorities do their job and make a video promoting tolerance in a time where refugees are facing increasing hostility in the world.

[QUOTE=benzi2k7;51155934] the video makes no defense of conflicting cultures, the video makes no mention of anything you said other than talking about mutual understanding & creating a world that is free from hate.[/QUOTE] I don't know, maybe I'm too snowed into my own beliefs to interpret the video the way you do. They're talking about creating a new Sweden and integrating both Swedes and foreigners into that country, presumably you can't integrate without accepting the culture of your fellow nationals, and for people with stark contrasts in viewpoints concessions would have to be made to make such a thing possible. So either Swedes change, or foreigners change, or both change. The reasonable approach here would be for both to change. Or this video would be useless, as I pointed out earlier. As for the argument about economic migrants, I'm not going to go into that debate but I think it's sad that so many refugees decided Sweden was the place to go only for them to be forced to share rooms with 5-10 other refugees for more than a year while their asylum application is handled. You have poorer countries in the EU willing to accept refugees, but no one wants to go there, even though they'd probably not have a worse life than they do in Sweden there. [URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/uk-europe-migrants-lithuania-idUSKCN0SK2DT20151026"]Here's[/URL] an example.

[QUOTE=momoiro;51155989]I don't know, maybe I'm too snowed into my own beliefs to interpret the video the way you do. They're talking about creating a new Sweden and integrating both Swedes and foreigners into that country, presumably you can't integrate without accepting the culture of your fellow nationals, and for people with stark contrasts in viewpoints concessions would have to be made to make such a thing possible. So either Swedes change, or foreigners change, or both change. The reasonable approach here would be for both to change. Or this video would be useless, as I pointed out earlier. As for the argument about economic migrants, I'm not going to go into that debate but I think it's sad that so many refugees decided Sweden was the place to go only for them to be forced to share rooms with 5-10 other refugees for more than a year while their asylum application is handled. You have poorer countries in the EU willing to accept refugees, but no one wants to go there, even though they'd probably not have a worse life than they do in Sweden there. [URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/uk-europe-migrants-lithuania-idUSKCN0SK2DT20151026"]Here's[/URL] an example.[/QUOTE]understandable, i just think there's issues refugees face in regards to hostility that happen before anything like segregrated classes or non-pork products comes into it which is probably what the charity is worried about. sure there's concessions to be made, but i think segregrating classes are on a different scale to including food options at a school. as for the economic migrant thing, it's a shame that they're stuck in a room with that many people but sweden seems like a lovely country so it seems worth it to them. only [B]2.3%[/B] of syrian refugees have chosen to settle in sweden, this is likely because of sweden being seen as a receptive place and is well known to refugees. places like malta, estonia and lithuania might be more of an... not sure the right word, advertising? refugee perception problem? like, if they don't know much about the place i'd understand why they wouldn't go to it over somewhere they've heard about. part of the reason why i think the EU has really failed the refugees in not getting a whole EU wide program implemented to even things out among the countries, it's really really commendable for germany and scandinavian + others regions to be taking the large majority of refugees entering the EU. still, the EU as a whole and my own country have contributed a decent amount of money to settling them in camps & closer (to refugee source) locations but we could be doing more. just too much suffering.

[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51155318][i]"Refugee. a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster."[/i] If they traveled through all the no-war safe countries between Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan and aaaall the way to Sweden where you conveniently get the most social benefits in Europe, then yes they are not a refugees. They are instead economic immigrants. Especially when there have been reports of said refugees going to holiday in the country they said they fled from, or going back to the country they fled from because it is too cold or something else didn't suit them. Shelter and support have been offered throughout so many European countries they traveled through, but no they want to go to Sweden and Germany more then anything - can you guess why?[/QUOTE] it's almost as if these people fleeing from their homes are fleeing to areas they think they can get a good quality of life