Lootershooters always looked to me like either a bad FPS trying to be an action RPG, or a bad action RPG trying to be a shooter. The genres really do not combine well. You either have your frantic, fast paced shooter gameplay ruined by loot collecting and bulletsponging, or you have your hack 'n slash ruined by terrible wannabe FPS gunplay.
Damn, I was worried that all the RPG loot-shooter elements and randomized levels would bring down the game a bit, but I never expected it would be that bad. I loved the first Shadow Warrior reboot, but I was never a big fan of Borderlands-type stuff. This game looks like it tried to be Borderlands but only managed to include the worst parts of it. That upgrade and elemental damage/resistance system looks utterly fucking pointless, it's just a numbers game with zero substance.
I was already considering preordering this because the price looked so attractive with the 20% discount, now I'm glad I didn't. I'll wait for a more substantial sale before getting this one.
I like it.
It's a great game but he has a salient point: scrounging/crafting on anything other than Insane is completely fucking pointless, also particles, particles everywhere.
[QUOTE=pebkac;51222919]Damn, I was worried that all the RPG loot-shooter elements and randomized levels would bring down the game a bit, but I never expected it would be that bad. I loved the first Shadow Warrior reboot, but I was never a big fan of Borderlands-type stuff. This game looks like it tried to be Borderlands but only managed to include the worst parts of it. That upgrade and elemental damage/resistance system looks utterly fucking pointless, it's just a numbers game with zero substance.
I was already considering preordering this because the price looked so attractive with the 20% discount, now I'm glad I didn't. I'll wait for a more substantial sale before getting this one.[/QUOTE]
Seems like Borderlands with only the good parts to me
[QUOTE=Mingebox;51222986]Seems like Borderlands with only the good parts to me[/QUOTE]
i wouldnt consider bullet spongey enemies a good part regardless of whether or not you like the genre
[QUOTE=Keychain;51223000]i wouldnt consider bullet spongey enemies a good part regardless of whether or not you like the genre[/QUOTE]
you don't even run into bullet spongy enemies unless you completely neglect upgrades on anything above normal.
[editline]18th October 2016[/editline]
like, honestly it's so fucking weird he really likes sw2013 but really dislikes sw2 because of bullet sponges.
sw2013 had way more bullet spongy enemies, and guns were practically useless. in sw2 both the guns and melee are effective weapons
[QUOTE=Keychain;51223000]i wouldnt consider bullet spongey enemies a good part regardless of whether or not you like the genre[/QUOTE]
Only the boss enemies are spongy if your build isn't shit. If anything they gore too damn fast if you slot proper upgrades into your weapons.
[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;51223040]you don't even run into bullet spongy enemies unless you completely neglect upgrades on anything above normal.
[editline]18th October 2016[/editline]
like, honestly it's so fucking weird he really likes sw2013 but really dislikes sw2 because of bullet sponges.
sw2013 had way more bullet spongy enemies, and guns were practically useless. in sw2 both the guns and melee are effective weapons[/QUOTE]
yeah i'm finding that i'm using alot more guns in SW2 than in SW2013.
in SW2013 I barely used any guns
Are you able to play Shadow Warrior 2 with just the sword? I only used the guns when I had to in the reboot, which made it about 100x better. The guns felt terrible (imo) in the reboot, and I was hoping that in 2 we'd get a repeat of, at least, the swordplay from the first game.
[QUOTE=Zamorikan;51223105]Are you able to play Shadow Warrior 2 with just the sword? I only used the guns when I had to in the reboot, which made it about 100x better. The guns felt terrible (imo) in the reboot, and I was hoping that in 2 we'd get a repeat of, at least, the swordplay from the first game.[/QUOTE]
you can use melee only but there are a few mechanics different in sw2 compared to sw2013.
for starters, the special moves aren't bound to double tapping.
Normally I hate loot-n-shoots (tried Borderlands, couldn't understand the hype) but to me, this is everything I thought Borderlands [I]would[/I] be.
It's fun, the writing of Lo Wang is on point(although quite a few supporting characters could use a bit of help), and I think even the procedural levels flow together pretty dang well (I notice far fewer invisible walls, allowing me to skip between areas in more ways).
Overall, SW1 had a more focused feel in its content, but SW2 has more (polished) content. I think it's well worth a play through or 3, especially as well since it's not your typical AAA price either
[QUOTE=Keychain;51223000]i wouldnt consider bullet spongey enemies a good part regardless of whether or not you like the genre[/QUOTE]
I was expecting Bullet Spongey enemies, but I actually had to turn the difficulty up because they were dying too fast, even for me.
While it does combat and writing better than Borderlands (2), I think they should've made something similar to the first game but with some of its issues fixed, such as gunplay, level design, and pacing. I feel they didn't need to make such a genre shift, and I think it suffers from it.
I think he was just really hung on the idea of wanting it to be a classic shooter, and so was disappointed when it turned out to be something different. Only reason I say this is because of me hearing "I don't play shooters to do [insert here]" a fair number of times.
And there's nothing wrong with that. I can assume some of the people who were really big fans of the first game by Flying Wild Hog were probably disappointed by this too. They may have wanted a classic shooter without things like upgrades and RPG elements (which the first game had bits of as well), but instead, got a game that was essentially overloaded with them.
To me, it looks pretty fun, so I'll probably give it a shot at some point.
He probably expected it to be more like the reboot and such, not veer off in this random direction of a loot-and-shoot that heavily dictates itself on said loot.
[QUOTE=RikohZX;51224887]He probably expected it to be more like the reboot and such, not veer off in this random direction of a loot-and-shoot that heavily dictates itself on said loot.[/QUOTE]
All I wanted was the reboot's gameplay with 4-player co-op and a few new weapons.
one thing that bugged me about the first one was being in a closed of room being forced to fight enimies to progress is that an issue with this one
[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;51225014]one thing that bugged me about the first one was being in a closed of room being forced to fight enimies to progress is that an issue with this one[/QUOTE]
The side mission areas usually seem way too open to easily be forced to fight, but then the missions may specifically require you to kill all the enemies (or at least specific types). Plus you want their loot and drops, and i'm sure the story missions have their fair share of just plopping a lot of enemies around you to murderize. Speaking out of perspective of someone that's not seen the game in-depth.
Shadow Warrior 2 took some lessons and learned from its predecessor, but in other ways it seems like the devs didn't learn at all and accentuated certain problems, like clusterfucks and hitbox issues.
I never played the first one, so what I'm getting is a better Borderlands with Doom 4 gunplay, and I like it.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;51225095]I never played the first one, so what I'm getting is a better Borderlands with Doom 4 gunplay, and I like it.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't really compare the gunplay to Doom 4 at all. Here, your melee weapon is an essential tool, and drops for ammunition are inconsistent so overusage of the guns (which have reloads) will leave you going dry for potentially a while. Doom 4 was mostly just shooty-shooty bang bang with a lot of brutalizing enemies to get supply drops and the melee reserved entirely for limited situations.
[QUOTE=RikohZX;51225109]I wouldn't really compare the gunplay to Doom 4 at all. Here, your melee weapon is an essential tool, and drops for ammunition are inconsistent so overusage of the guns (which have reloads) will leave you going dry for potentially a while. Doom 4 was mostly just shooty-shooty bang bang with a lot of brutalizing enemies to get supply drops and the melee reserved entirely for limited situations.[/QUOTE]
It's like Doom 4 in that you move fast and it feels good to kill things.
I normally agree with TB
But he's 100% off base on this one IMO.
100%.
[editline]18th October 2016[/editline]
Fucking fantastic game. Really is.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51225220]I normally agree with TB
But he's 100% off base on this one IMO.
100%.
[editline]18th October 2016[/editline]
Fucking fantastic game. Really is.[/QUOTE]
can you elaborate a little on why it's good?
[QUOTE=Mingebox;51225150]It's like Doom 4 in that you move fast and it feels good to kill things.[/QUOTE]
that's not really an apt comparison
both of those apply to SW2013 and even ROTT2013
doesn't make either of them anything like D4
1) it's fast. Super fast. You can really move in this game and really fight your way out of trouble because of that.
2) Guns. I loved borderlands, but it suffers from often boring guns. Every gun here is hand crafted and interesting for that. There's a fair number on offer and a fair amount of difference between them. Hand guns all feel unique from each other, etc.
3) Customization. TB rails on and on about this being a downside but I rarely go into the menu mid combat. I do spend a lot of time there though because there is a lot to customize. I'm at the point where I'm duel wielding assault rifles that gain bonus damage on kill that ignite enemies on fire. There's similar such weirdness on other guns.
4) Melee combat. It's great. You can't always rely solely on your sword but when you do it's s lot of fun to gib demons and gaurds into tiny pieces.
5) replayability. It seems highly replay-able. Maybe it'll get stale but I'm sure there will be content updates.
6) quality shooting mechanics. Just good gunplay.
quite strange how tb switches upgrades in the middle of battle and complains about it as if it's the games fault he didn't properly prepare.
[editline]19th October 2016[/editline]
like, i finished the game on insane in 11 hours yea? completed all side quests, got a 100% mark on the savefile, etc.
i had 1 gun of (almost) every ammo type in my loadout, had at least 1 of each elemental effect, and had no problems AT ALL dispatching enemies quickly.
i never noticed any bullet sponges at all other than the bosses (which ofc they should have health. they're bosses).
All I could gather as to why he didn't like the game is: "It's not SW1 and sometimes I have no idea what I'm doing so it's game's fault"
He's playing on hard while having no understanding of mechanics and then he complains about spongyness. Of course enemies will be spongy if you are oblivious to upgrade mechanics and how they work, instead opting to complain about how you can swap them out right during combat.
He could instead turn difficulty to medium but nope, he will instead complain about how an enemy that dies in 6 hits instead of 1 is suddenly too much for him. I don't understand how some human sized enemies having a bit more health is such a big issue in a Wang game.
His nitpicks(lack of coop customization and lack of some button remaps) are spot on but his big complaints are all filled with such ignorance of the medium he plays it hurts. Feels like he went into this one with pre-defined bias of wanting SW1 and lack of willingness to open his mind a bit to the changes.
Regardless of how the RPG systems functioned, i had a blast with this game.
The gameplay felt like a mix between Doom, Shadow Warrior, Warframe, Borderlands and Diablo.
I think it's strongest aspect was the weapon arsenal by far, nearly every gun i used in that game felt great or at least enjoyable.
I totally disagree with TB on this and that isn't a normal occurrence.
I liked SW2013 alot, however i finished most of it with sword only, partially because it was fun and had a great feel to it and partially because most of the guns sucked. SW2 has better gunplay, but i have to agree with TB, the whole loot and upgrade system is not what i wanted from SW2. In FPS I never want to bother with anything like this, i want action. But since alot of enemies are bullet sponges you can't not bother with upgrades or loot because otherwise your guns will do piss poor damage, at least for 6 hours that i played. So yeah i agree with TB, it's a very good direction for Shadow Warrior
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