[Super Eyepatch Wolf] What Makes a Hero Feel Real?

[PresidentGandhi]

[video=youtube;xfcgzYjXwtg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfcgzYjXwtg[/video]

[editline]10th September 2017[/editline]

FYI, the guy has also made a similar video on villains. If you haven't seen it, here it is.

[video=youtube;XqMxH0atn18]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqMxH0atn18[/video]

[Conely]

video starts off strong with the whole idea of graphing heroes, but by the end it's just restating that perfect heroes are boring and not providing much of its own insight.

genuinely heroic characters like Solid Snake or Brienne of Tarth (in the books i mean) are probably my favorite in all fiction, so it's disappointing that the video doesn't really go at all into what makes a hero a hero, so much as just how to do a character in general

[Morbo!!!]

[QUOTE=Cone;52667369]video starts off strong with the whole idea of graphing heroes, but by the end it's just restating that perfect heroes are boring and not providing much of its own insight.

genuinely heroic characters like Solid Snake or Brienne of Tarth (in the books i mean) are probably my favorite in all fiction, so it's disappointing that the video doesn't really go at all into what makes a hero a hero, so much as just how to do a character in general[/QUOTE]

Funnily enough, Georg Rockall-Schmidt put up a similar video last night, and I think he does a bit of a better job getting to the bottom of it
[video]https://youtu.be/sQzxE3hPw9U[/video]

[Marik Bentusi]

This seems like a pretty shallow analysis to me. As tho the author just recently stopped liking "standard heroes" and just discovered that flawed characters have a second layer to them that adds at least some nuance and realism. Because the anti-heroic trope seems more complex and less common, it's then being pitched as the better version of the straight-up heroic protagonist archetype.
I think the biggest problem with this analysis, aside from conflating personal tastes with an objective breakdown of stylistic devices, is that it's separating the heroic character too much from everything else in the story. A good story is a team effort of tropes that work well together, not an all-star team of tropes that are compelling in isolation. A more complex or more morally ambiguous character is not always the better fit for a story.

There are lots of possible scenarios where a straight-up heroic character is a more attractive choice than a muddy anti-hero:

- it's a short story with a simple, positive atmosphere that needs to be hammered home quickly to focus on other aspects. Obviously this starts to fall apart as you stretch out or regurgitate the story to create an entire franchise.

- the story isn't focused on the hero, or isn't character-focused at all. Maybe it's not about the hero but about their rogue gallery. Maybe it's not about who the hero is, but how they manage to overcome their obstacles.
This is often the angle from which you get reactionary heroes (I must stop the baddies from overthrowing the peaceful status quo!) and villains that are evil because they're mad, corrupted or beyond mortal understanding (like Mass Effect 1's Reapers or many Blizzard villains).

- the hero's high power and virtue levels are of secondary importance to the story. The parents in The Incredibles check both the "high power" and "high virtue" boxes (unless you consider it unheroic that they'll occasionally defy authority to do good), but are also struggling and very down-to-earth/human in their relationships with other characters. Unlike with something like Superman's mundane alter ego that's almost completely divorced from his heroic lifestyle, a lot of the Incredibles' relationship problems actually stem from them being too virtuous or too powerful - too heroic - for their own good.

- the hero is an uplifting foil to a shitty world. When everyone's running away, they stand their ground. When others backstab, they uphold their honor. It's important that this isn't done with Deus Ex Machinas and plot armor tho, but stays within the established realm of possibility: The hero's power comes from seeing a third good option where others only see two bad ones. The hero's virtue comes from exceptional past experiences that have shaped their character to this point.
It's basically like a dramatic version of the funny guy/straight man comedy routine where a positive and a negative counterpart can bounce off each other.

I'm pretty surprised the guy referenced My Hero Academia because that show/manga makes great use of just about every hero type out there. Stain does what 90ies edgy anti-heroes do best, but so does every other type of hero in that show. All Might for example is pretty much Superman (high power, high virtue, dramatically convenient power limiter) with a mundane alter ego that's awkward and inexperienced when it comes to raising his hero-in-training successor. And it's exactly *because* he's such a perfect, flawless hero that he's struggling so hard with making his protégé live up to the expectations All Might has created himself. It's *because* he's so dedicated to heroic acts and being a living mascot that he hasn't found the time to socializing or practice being a father figure, which is now catching up to him. This is how All Might ends up being both powerful and virtuous as well as human and weak, without one half of the coin undermining the other. In fact, they're strengthening each other to create an internally consistent, double-layered character.

[Reds]

[QUOTE=Cone;52667369]video starts off strong with the whole idea of graphing heroes, but by the end it's just restating that perfect heroes are boring and not providing much of its own insight.

genuinely heroic characters like Solid Snake or Brienne of Tarth (in the books i mean) are probably my favorite in all fiction, so it's disappointing that the video doesn't really go at all into what makes a hero a hero, so much as just how to do a character in general[/QUOTE]

Genuinely heroic characters tend to be the most satisfying and/or likable when they're done correctly, possibly because their ideals are considered boring or too generic that it makes them shine brighter. Mixing them into a cynical or more grounded setting often enhances this.