I've always innately followed this concept of a "lie for a greater good", but my family always raised me to believe that it is an insult to lie under any circumstance. It implies that you don't respect the person you're "protecting" enough to help them see reality. But then again, I grew up in an average American household where we practice traditions like Christmas, Easter, the Tooth Fairy and such, so I guess the exception is that adding a little fantasy to the real world is okay, as long as it's to make children or the dying feel comfortable.
Honesty is the only way to achieve a natural balance in life, even if it does mean you have to go trough hardships. In the end, it'll turn out for the better in the long run
[QUOTE=SirJon;51845790]Honesty is the only way to achieve a natural balance in life, even if it does mean you have to go trough hardships. In the end, it'll turn out for the better in the long run[/QUOTE]
and what hardships they are
fucking christ sometimes I wish my conscience would stop giving a fuck about what's right making me feel bad
lying is easy and convenient, but you get caught sooner or later, which puts you in a worse position with people
[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;51845820]and what hardships they are
fucking christ sometimes I wish my conscience would stop giving a fuck about what's right making me feel bad
lying is easy and convenient, but you get caught sooner or later, which puts you in a worse position with people[/QUOTE]
This. Lying requires having a phenomenal memory and eventually an error will be made.
Lying should never be tolerated no matter how small. If I'm doing shit at something I want someone to tell me, how else can anyone improve? And that relationship example was utter trash. I don't think anyone sane would think just cos a partner mooched with someone else means they don't love you, it means they've willingly broken your trust, which is reasonable to get angry over, if they've done it once, mayhaps they can do it again etcetc.
"its okay to cheat on your partner and then lie about it"
what?
I think that everyone is part of a social system and lying is a part of that. It really depends on the situation, and its a dangerous tool to use. I think it should be avoided whenever possible, but its also a complex social system and should not be discarded entirely.
I think people forget that there are many types of lie. For example if you have a story and you embellish it at all you are pretty much lying, even if it is for the benefit of others because it makes the story more interesting.
"yo can u take me to the post office cuz i got a package"
"what u got"
"a giant dildo"
yeah idk
[QUOTE=Max;51846570]"its okay to cheat on your partner and then lie about it"
what?[/QUOTE]
Ok yeah, fuck this guy.
My grandma once asked me if I thought there was an afterlife where my dad would be and I said "I don't know". If I had told the truth I'd have said no, but it would have been pointless and probably have made her feel sad.
I think it's pretty hard to deny that a lie can be kind, but that doesn't mean that being kind is necessarily always the right choice.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51846622]"yo can u take me to the post office cuz i got a package"
"what u got"
"a giant dildo"
yeah idk[/QUOTE]
you dont have to lie though, you can just not tell him
[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;51846633]you dont have to lie though, you can just not tell him[/QUOTE]
hmmmmmmm if i dont answer it'll look like i'm hiding something
Some of the responses in this thread come off as kinda naive. I feel like if you actually believe in 100% honesty no matter what, you are kidding yourself because everyone tells small lies/mistruths here and there usually without even thinking of it.
It's one thing putting yourself in a complex 'web of lies' situation, or telling big lies that have the potential to hurt people, but it's another thing telling your friend you aren't feeling too well when in reality you just want some space from them or something without hurting their feelings.
Sometimes the truth is far more damaging to someone than a small lie which will never be found out. It seems kinda counter intuitive to me to be cruel to someone because you feel its the moral thing to do, despite the fact that even in the long run they will not benefit from your honesty. All you're doing is damaging them under the guise that its the moral thing to do and you will feel better doing it, which to me is immoral/selfish.
If we were all brutally honest in literally everything we did then we'd just be robots beep booping and following the rulebook to a T.
[QUOTE=Cushie;51846709]Some of the responses in this thread come off as kinda naive. I feel like if you actually believe in 100% honesty no matter what, you are kidding yourself because everyone tells small lies/mistruths here and there usually without even thinking of it.
It's one thing putting yourself in a complex 'web of lies' situation, or telling big lies that have the potential to hurt people, but it's another thing telling your friend you aren't feeling too well when in reality you just want some space from them or something without hurting their feelings.
Sometimes the truth is far more damaging to someone than a small lie which will never be found out. It seems kinda counter intuitive to me to be cruel to someone because you feel its the moral thing to do, despite the fact that even in the long run they will not benefit from your honesty. All you're doing is damaging them under the guise that its the moral thing to do and you will feel better doing it, which to me is immoral/selfish.
If we were all brutally honest in literally everything we did then we'd just be robots beep booping and following the rulebook to a T.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this.
Some here have said that lying is circumstantial, to which I agree with. There's no written rule saying when it's good or not to lie, you just have to make that judgement on a per situation basis. Would that white lie really be what's best? SHOULD that person really know? In the most severe of cases, are you okay with "Oh I may have affected someones life in a negative way with no positive outlook, but it's okay because I told the truth!"
Lying is a powerful and often the wrong tool to use, but in the right place at the right time in the right amount(s) you can prevent anything from getting even worse.
i think you should always try to tell the truth, but if telling the truth means hardship that can be prevented and has no benefits, then lying can be a good way to avoid that hardship
otherwise, tell the truth (but don't be a dick about it)
[QUOTE=343N;51846800]i think you should always try to tell the truth, but if telling the truth means hardship that can be prevented and has no benefits, then lying can be a good way to avoid that hardship
otherwise, tell the truth (but don't be a dick about it)[/QUOTE]
Watch witcher 3 hearts of stone ending where o e 'has to stand on a moon".
Master mirror doesn't lie. He sees the truth in ways others dont. This is how I "deceive"
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51846640]hmmmmmmm if i dont answer it'll look like i'm hiding something[/QUOTE]
And you're free to hide whatever you want, people should be respecting your privacy. The fact that you feel like lying is the only "solution" isn't very good
[video=youtube;VOwjtNEoRYg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOwjtNEoRYg[/video]
[editline]20th February 2017[/editline]
this video puts forth the idea that going into a relationship where the norm is mutually consenting you won't mess with anyone else but doing that anyway is fine? what
[QUOTE=Cushie;51846709]Some of the responses in this thread come off as kinda naive. I feel like if you actually believe in 100% honesty no matter what, you are kidding yourself because everyone tells small lies/mistruths here and there usually without even thinking of it.
It's one thing putting yourself in a complex 'web of lies' situation, or telling big lies that have the potential to hurt people, but it's another thing telling your friend you aren't feeling too well when in reality you just want some space from them or something without hurting their feelings.
Sometimes the truth is far more damaging to someone than a small lie which will never be found out. It seems kinda counter intuitive to me to be cruel to someone because you feel its the moral thing to do, despite the fact that even in the long run they will not benefit from your honesty. All you're doing is damaging them under the guise that its the moral thing to do and you will feel better doing it, which to me is immoral/selfish.
If we were all brutally honest in literally everything we did then we'd just be robots beep booping and following the rulebook to a T.[/QUOTE]
If I need some space, I'll tell my friend that I do. Since I'm generally being honest about such things, they know that's a possibility and are cool with it - accept it, and tolerate that as being part of me. I don't have to make generic excuses, because my friends accept me as who I am, with no drama attached. If anything, this proves that we're compitable enough to actually be friends.
So I don't totally agree with you there, and naive is the last thing it is.
[QUOTE=SirJon;51847731]If I need some space, I'll tell my friend that I do. Since I'm generally being honest about such things, they know that's a possibility and are cool with it - accept it, and tolerate that as being part of me. I don't have to make generic excuses, because my friends accept me as who I am, with no drama attached. If anything, this proves that we're compitable enough to actually be friends.
So I don't totally agree with you there, and naive is the last thing it is.[/QUOTE]
Except the reality is that most friendships (Especially new or not super close ones) aren't all sunshine and rainbows where everyone can be 100% honest with each other all the time and nobodies feelings will ever be hurt by what is said, because people are different from each other and respond to things differently and context is very important in this situation.
Yeah I have friends that I could say that to as well, but generally its far easier to just give a generic excuse to save everyone the trouble of what could be hurt feelings or an argument over something petty or just someone being pushy because they don't think its a legit excuse (And what could be boiled down to a lack of respect for your feelings/wishes on the other person's part). It was just a generic example of a small lie that people often tell either way.
By naive I was referring to the mentality of 'I never lie no matter how small and I don't think anyone should ever lie under any circumstance', which I also believe is hypocritical for 99.999% of people who say it because everybody lies here and there on some level.
touchè
Although I'd rather not pretend to be friends with someone rather than having to rely on excuses. It's true that early friendships do require a bit more delicacy, although still little lies are an absolutely last resort, and usually I just tell them I lied if they ask or once I feel we're a bit more friendly
The response to this video is pretty much why I am always pretty wary of School of Life.
They have a habit of pushing a specific ideology [b]really[/b] hard in their videos. Sometimes they manage to make a video without pushing it (like the also-posted video on confidence), and other times they push it [b]really[/b] hard, like their video on cynicism [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohrQCzZsgIw]that argues that [i]all[/i] cynics are people who have been hurt in the past, are emotionally traumatized, and are using cynicism as a defense[/url], or their video on politeness [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BESJqphtp2U]that argues that being polite is a manipulative, deceitful game of logic played to eschew honesty in favor of gaining some sort of benefit over or through other people[/url].
I enjoy watching School of Life videos, but I watch them with a mountain of salt in mind. They are hardly unbiased, and they have a strong habit of positing their opinions as objective "self-evident" truth that doesn't need either disclaimer nor justification.
Honestly it's like a 13 year olds idea of psychology
[QUOTE=t h e;51847066]And you're free to hide whatever you want, people should be respecting your privacy. The fact that you feel like lying is the only "solution" isn't very good[/QUOTE]
yeah and then my friends will be like oh wow im not a good enough friend to be told whats in the mail
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51849123]yeah and then my friends will be like oh wow im not a good enough friend to be told whats in the mail[/QUOTE]
Well, depending on what you're getting in the mail I'd say there are a shitload of people I wouldn't tell. Its not the same thing having a friend you hang out with than a friend you can trust with important/heavy/weird stuff
This man just spews whatever shit he thinks sounds insightful and intelligent, he's no more than just the Sigmund Freud of the modern era but without the name recognition. Whoever follows the School of Life is a blabbering clod.
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