Culture in Decline | Episode #1 "What Democracy?" by Peter Joseph - General

[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTbLslkIR2k[/MEDIA] First episode of this series by the creator of The Zeitgeist films.

Seems incredibly leftist. But they do have a few good points.

Really interesting video - made some excellent points (some stupid ones as well) and some very well-deserved criticisms. Problem is, I didn't see any solutions being offered. He basically destroyed the entire idea of western democratic society without offering a better alternative. I'm confused by this video, but I might watch the rest of the series to see where he's going with this. Plus what Marbalo said.

the solution is to live in a mudhut eating bugs and die when we turn 20 like nature intended

The problem I see is how he comes off. If he wants to get the average Joe liking his idea he will have to come about it in a more friendly way or maybe like the average internet post you see a million times. He will have to find a new way to firstly present his idea without someone just ignoring it before hearing it unless he is looking for a specific demographic right now. [QUOTE=Strike 86;37014207]Really interesting video - made some excellent points (some stupid ones as well) and some very well-deserved criticisms. Problem is, I didn't see any solutions being offered. He basically destroyed the entire idea of western democratic society without offering a better alternative. I'm confused by this video, but I might watch the rest of the series to see where he's going with this. Plus what Marbalo said.[/QUOTE] He actually made 2 movies specifically for his solution ideas.

He has some valid points, but most can be shot down with what Marbalo said. Certain points like having "democracy for everyone" is an even more stupid and broken idea. Most people in this country are not very bright when it comes to politics. They don't think freely and therefore putting the right for them to vote on important decisions is no better because they will just be swayed by who can put more money into their adds. As long as money is around nothing stated here will be possible. The system is in place and it's probably not going to change a hole hell of a lot, so he will just have to adapt. And also he sounded like a pretentious "i know better than you" snobby asshole. He needs to be more appealing if he wants people to join his cause.

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;37014771]As long as money is around nothing stated here will be possible.[/QUOTE] Thats actually his point. He wants to make a moneyless society.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;37014878]See, these are the type of brainless overambitious goals that do not penetrate the mainstream. They are usually contained within small groups of individuals that generally get ignored and branded by society as a bunch of psychos and weirdos.[/QUOTE] At the same time you can't just call it dumb because its ambitious. I don't think he expects a new world over night but as long as the idea is out there and given some time it might have a chance.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;37014807][thumb]http://niggaupload.com/images/eYbi8.jpg[/thumb] now you don't need to watch the video, enjoy![/QUOTE] I scrolled through this thread before watching the video and thought this was edited. Laughed out loud when I saw it actually in the video. Also halfway in when they transition from a man counting dollah dollah bills to a leaf to a baby to a crowded sidewalk. Typical Zeitgeist.

The beginning was nice, I suppose, but a little while into it I started to get really turned off by it. This was in part because of the shoddy production quality which made it look like an angsty tween with a webcam made it, but mostly because this was textbook liberalized bullshit. Now I'm a liberal, and really goddamn leftist at that, but this shit was textbook trash derived from ideas that have been debunked over and over again. I don't know where these guys got off decrying all of the evils of society while mislabeling them in the process, but they're fucking stupid for actually putting a final product like this out to the internet. When he started bitching about how the president is a tyrant I got fed up, because he basically excluded the fact that presidential power is checked to hell and back thanks to congress and the judicial branch. Sure, accountability in campaigns would be nice, but he really misses so much of the issues he's talking about. Like I said, textbook liberalized bullshit. I can't stand shit like this, it's not like they even provide anything constructive - they see it fit to deconstruct society, but they neglect to rebuild it. And no, saying "we need to love everyone" doesn't fucking count. You can't pick apart the intricacies of a society built upon a republican form of government and then in an attempt to reconstruct society in your vision leave it at "well yeah uh love everyone", that's not how it fucking works. Fuck these guys.

[url]http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zeitgeist[/url] [quote]Zeitgeist is an amateurly-produced Internet conspiracy theory film. It combines some discussion of Jesus mythicism (the position that Jesus was a myth forged from the ideas of previous religions and Gods like Isis, Osiris etc.) with a double-barreled shotgun blast of crazy: income tax denial, the Federal Reserve being an elaborate plot by the international bankers to take over the world, 9/11 being a conspiracy, and we are all going to have barcodes tattooed onto us and get chipped with RFID tags. All fairly standard conspiracy stuff put together in an ultimately disjointed way. If you enjoy watching other people's paranoid delusions with cheap CGI graphics interspersed, you can watch the whole thing online. [/quote]

I don't think "democracy" should be our aim anyways. It's an outdated word and ideal that didn't comply with ancient society let alone our modern and increasingly complex world. I love his pretentious confidence too, "this is the intervention the modern world needs because I know how things really work". He's no better than the people he interviews on the street that make sweeping generalizations about the American system of government because of popular opinion. It seems most people hold the view that the American system of "democracy" is broken because everyone wants to be a "revolutionary". Yet instead of taking a serious effort to study politics or economics, they instead choose to exalt the "wisdom" of easily digestible videos like this.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;37014807][thumb]http://niggaupload.com/images/eYbi8.jpg[/thumb] now you don't need to watch the video, enjoy![/QUOTE] You guys do understand that this series is supposed to be comedic? [QUOTE=Marbalo;37013568]I really dislike the Zeitgeist movement. It had some really good points, but the ending just made it all collapse in on itself by parroting the same drivel everyone else parrots. "Society is shit!!!, not us though, we have the answer to everything!!! donate now" [/QUOTE] The Zeitgeist movement does not accept donations, I think you have read into this wrong. They have some pretty good ideas about post scarcity and how it is not a 'Utopian pipe dream' as you have claimed. [QUOTE=Marbalo;37013568]Utopian pipe dream of a perfect society, but something that he can really grasp and understand easily. [/Quote] This is probably your biggest misunderstanding of the movement. A Resource Based Economy is not a utopia. It is a sustainable alternative to the current system, which will collapse almost inevitably. This system is emergent. Utopia's are established and proclaimed to be 'perfect', this is why there is no Utopia as a system that would claim to be perfect, would also be very naive of its problems. [QUOTE=Marbalo;37013568] The people who watch this kind of stuff are the same people who go on the internet and have anti-consumerism quotes in their forum signatures, and like to have Fight Club avatars. Yet at the same time, still get up in the morning everyday and still go to school/job. Effectively contributing to this problem. They dont really care, they just like to believe they're above most people. That they're aware of the shittyness that is Western society and that everyone else around them is sheeple. Fight the power! [SUB](but still submit to it because being anti-society doesn't put bread on the table.)[/SUB] [/QUOTE] Ad Hominem Tu Quoque. Advocating any form of post scarcity is more about education than protest. You cannot make the transition through capitalism, as capitalism needs scarcity to exist in order for it to run. [QUOTE=Marbalo;37013568] I'm a massive advocate for Utopias. [/QUOTE] Why would you be a massive advocate for a system that would establish itself to be perfect?