• VICE Documentary on the Roma (Gypsy) with a Pro-Roma Stance
    145 replies, posted
[video=youtube;ALdlphTYdi4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALdlphTYdi4&list=UUZaT_X_mc0BI-djXOlfhqWQ[/video] Those comments.
Boo hoo, law is law, discrimination is just an excuse.
Hardly a pro-roma stance here. Or anti for that matter. It's just a bit of both for viewer to decide.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;45490703]Hardly a pro-roma stance here. Or anti for that matter. It's just a bit of both for viewer to decide.[/QUOTE] Well that's how new is supposed to be presented.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;45490703]Hardly a pro-roma stance here. Or anti for that matter. It's just a bit of both for viewer to decide.[/QUOTE] I think the scapegoating is real but this is very clearly pro-roma
[QUOTE=itisjuly;45490703]Hardly a pro-roma stance here. Or anti for that matter. It's just a bit of both for viewer to decide.[/QUOTE] Keep in mind that to a lot of people saying Roma are just as human as them is extremely pro-Roma.
[QUOTE=Jund;45491725]I think the scapegoating is real but this is very clearly pro-roma[/QUOTE] Care to elaborate? Or is it as asteroidrules said, calling roma as humans is pro-roma? The video shows that roma live in shitty conditions and many move to other countries to seek better life. Some do it legally while others resort to begging and stealing. I don't see anything pro about this.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;45496062]Care to elaborate? Or is it as asteroidrules said, calling roma as humans is pro-roma? The video shows that roma live in shitty conditions and many move to other countries to seek better life. Some do it legally while others resort to begging and stealing. I don't see anything pro about this.[/QUOTE] Just watch 4:24. It's obvious which side the reporter is biased towards
The anti-Roma stance always seems to boil down to "It's not racist if it's true!". Despicable.
Video doesn't seem that biased, even the comment about change in the neighborhood is what is happening, how is it biased?
[QUOTE=Larikang;45499279]The anti-Roma stance always seems to boil down to "It's not racist if it's true!".[/QUOTE] so does literally every anti-race stance. this is how racism works
Wow, there's a lot of denial about racism against Roma/Gypsies in Europe.
It's sad that anything about a racial group has to be called pro- that group. It's like a 'pro-black' documentary... It just shows the sad state of affairs for Travellers in Europe and around the world due to the relatively petty actions of an extremely small minority somehow translating to hatred for an entire group of people.
I believe that no western european has any idea what it actually is to live in a country with Roma. Here in Bulgaria we have whole gypsy-only appartment buildings who REFUSE to pay their heating, water or electricity bills so their neighbours are forced to pay them for them, because if anyone were to try and cut them off, the gypsies start protesting about discrimination. As said in the video, one of the practices gypsies have for getting a living is to pick metal. In itself thats illegal but we've gone to the point where we had a PSA on NATIONAL TV during PRIME TIME to BEG gypsies to stop stealing insulation from over-ground heating pipes, as it is not actually metal and they cannot sell it for anything. Another popular practice is to have ~15 children per family and get financial aid for htem. Why? Because they like family. Can they feed and take care of them? No. Do they know that they can't? Yeah, they do. Do they still make more babies? Yeah, they do. Even after the government offered gypsy families free access to condoms, none of them actually used them. I don't even know why. Just imagine а gypsy wagon being pulled by a horse somewhere in your average clean european capital, cruising around at a speed of 15 km/h. And then the horse starts shitting on the road. Over my 20 year lifetime I have not had a single good experience with the Roma. This includes back when I was ~6 years old and I had a Roma friend. I remember how he would go around trashcans and look for cigarette stumps, which he would then try to smoke. At the age of 6. He did not go to school because he thought it was boring. So yes, I do believe the report is bias since it portrays the Roma as the victim and the authorities as the villain, taking their homes away.
[QUOTE=Jamsponge;45500280]It's sad that anything about a racial group has to be called pro- that group. It's like a 'pro-black' documentary... It just shows the sad state of affairs for Travellers in Europe and around the world due to the relatively petty actions of an [B]extremely small minority[/B] somehow translating to hatred for an entire group of people.[/QUOTE] Hah
It's funny because this shows the side of the women and the children but not the other one where the actual stealing and where the bad reputation comes from.
[QUOTE=wanksta11;45500523]It's funny because this shows the side of the women and the children but not the other one where the actual stealing and where the bad reputation comes from.[/QUOTE] There's plenty of those already.
[QUOTE=kaine123;45500246]Wow, there's a lot of denial about racism against Roma/Gypsies in Europe.[/QUOTE] here are some comments from americans who have had experience with roma people, from reddit: [quote=#1] "You can't make generalizations, that's racist!" Uh no, sorry. the truth is that their entire 'culture,' if you can call it that. Is crooked and dishonest. I've said it before in this thread, the only good gypsies are the ones that have left that culture, making them no longer gypsies. EDIT: I am also American, but I lived in France extensively. It seems as though most Americans replying to this are on the same page as me: If you've dealt with gypsies anywhere, you know that the 'political correctness' card does not apply here.[/quote] [quote=#2] Acceptable? They take pride in their thievery. I had the misfortune of living next door to a family of gypsies in America… When the landlord went to the apartment to clean it out and prepare it for new tenants they were just there, and started yelling at her "we're here legally! we're here legally!" I guess they knew the people who were moving out and started getting their mail sent to the address a few months earlier. Took almost 2 years to get them evicted and they never paid a single months rent. There was also like 20 of them living in a small apartment and they bought a german shepherd which they never let outside, apparently the animal waste destroyed all the hardwood floors and the place had to be completely remodeled……… Beware the Gypsies, they are a no good rotten group[/quote] [quote=#3] I had nothing against gypsies, I'm an American for Christ's sake. Then Freshmen year of colelge in an Intro to Euro. Studies class a Romani came to speak to our class. It was the biggest bunch of victim card'ing bullshit I've ever heard. Even feminists and jews don't know how to lay it on like a Romani does. (Gypsy is an offensive term by the way, he told us.) The biggest gem was when he told us that society discriminates against them because they don't send their children to school. As a result of this and because they're all half-illiterate and whole-ignorant due to their cultural beliefs some believe that if society doesn't change to accommodate them then they are being discriminated against. I don't hate all gypsies, just the one's that are like that.[/quote] while I'm glad most americans don't hate roma, the only reason they aren't as racist as europeans against roma is because the vast majority haven't lived near them in any real sense whatsoever. I know this doesn't refute what you said, I just don't want people to get the wrong idea
[QUOTE=Prism;45500302]I believe that no western european has any idea what it actually is to live in a country with Roma. Here in Bulgaria we have whole gypsy-only appartment buildings who REFUSE to pay their heating, water or electricity bills so their neighbours are forced to pay them for them, because if anyone were to try and cut them off, the gypsies start protesting about discrimination. As said in the video, one of the practices gypsies have for getting a living is to pick metal. In itself thats illegal but we've gone to the point where we had a PSA on NATIONAL TV during PRIME TIME to BEG gypsies to stop stealing insulation from over-ground heating pipes, as it is not actually metal and they cannot sell it for anything. Another popular practice is to have ~15 children per family and get financial aid for htem. Why? Because they like family. Can they feed and take care of them? No. Do they know that they can't? Yeah, they do. Do they still make more babies? Yeah, they do. Even after the government offered gypsy families free access to condoms, none of them actually used them. I don't even know why. Just imagine а gypsy wagon being pulled by a horse somewhere in your average clean european capital, cruising around at a speed of 15 km/h. And then the horse starts shitting on the road. Over my 20 year lifetime I have not had a single good experience with the Roma. This includes back when I was ~6 years old and I had a Roma friend. I remember how he would go around trashcans and look for cigarette stumps, which he would then try to smoke. At the age of 6. He did not go to school because he thought it was boring. So yes, I do believe the report is bias since it portrays the Roma as the victim and the authorities as the villain, taking their homes away.[/QUOTE] Same thing happens here in Portugal. Cops wont do a thing because they are scared as hell of them, and with reason, and whenever theres a trial involving gypsy people, they bring in the big guys to keep everything calm, not the average cops. And if you accidentaly run over a gypsy, you best just get the fuck out of there. No really, [b]don't wait[/b], or the fact that you could go to trial and maybe even go to jail probably won't cross your head soon enough before you get revenge stabbed, even if you aren't at fault. But at the very least, I haven't had any reasons to complain about them. They always keep it to themselves, doing their thing, setting their horses on the nearby fields eating grass and such, and according to my neighbour, they are actually pretty ok. You just don't want to cross paths with those closer to the city... [editline]26th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=wanksta11;45500523]It's funny because this shows the side of the women and the children but not the other one where the actual stealing and where the bad reputation comes from.[/QUOTE] It's always like that. These documentaries only show the sob story parts of their lives. There are hundreds of stories on how even after getting help, they just end up trashing everything up and going back to the shit. And ofc, there are also stories of folks who just leave that stuff all behind and aim for an actual normal life. [editline]26th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Turnips5;45500553]here are some comments from americans who have had experience with roma people, from reddit: while I'm glad most americans don't hate roma, the only reason they aren't as racist as europeans against roma is because the vast majority haven't lived near them in any real sense whatsoever. I know this doesn't refute what you said, I just don't want people to get the wrong idea[/QUOTE] I feel like that's a double edged sword though. On one side, you got the generalization part, that says "you've only had bad experiences and not good ones, don't set everyone in the same group!", but on the other, you got millions of people who hate them all over the world, implying that gypsy people who didn't go down criminal paths are in extremely small numbers. Through all my life, for example, I've only met like a couple of them who were good people (who sadly moved away), and everyone else I see or hear about is seen as some kind of plague... Like, I used to go to this school that, the very moment it started to get gypsy kids as students, everyone started to hate the school. Apparently, they ran it to the ground. It gets to the point that I just don't know if this is even racism anymore. It most likely is, but... It's like it all went to hell or something... At least for the european part.
It's impossible to be racist against gypsies (Irish, Roma or otherwise) - they're a society, not a race. They are literally defined by what they do.
[QUOTE=Prism;45500302]I believe that no western european has any idea what it actually is to live in a country with Roma. Here in Bulgaria we have whole gypsy-only appartment buildings who REFUSE to pay their heating, water or electricity bills so their neighbours are forced to pay them for them, because if anyone were to try and cut them off, the gypsies start protesting about discrimination. As said in the video, one of the practices gypsies have for getting a living is to pick metal. In itself thats illegal but we've gone to the point where we had a PSA on NATIONAL TV during PRIME TIME to BEG gypsies to stop stealing insulation from over-ground heating pipes, as it is not actually metal and they cannot sell it for anything. Another popular practice is to have ~15 children per family and get financial aid for htem. Why? Because they like family. Can they feed and take care of them? No. Do they know that they can't? Yeah, they do. Do they still make more babies? Yeah, they do. Even after the government offered gypsy families free access to condoms, none of them actually used them. I don't even know why. Just imagine а gypsy wagon being pulled by a horse somewhere in your average clean european capital, cruising around at a speed of 15 km/h. And then the horse starts shitting on the road. Over my 20 year lifetime I have not had a single good experience with the Roma. This includes back when I was ~6 years old and I had a Roma friend. I remember how he would go around trashcans and look for cigarette stumps, which he would then try to smoke. At the age of 6. He did not go to school because he thought it was boring. So yes, I do believe the report is bias since it portrays the Roma as the victim and the authorities as the villain, taking their homes away.[/QUOTE] It's odd that things with Roma seem to be worse on the continent than here, because aside from the occasional incident, from my experience they've always been pretty chill. We tend to have a slightly bigger problem with Irish travellers, which is a shame because like half my ancestry is made up of them
[QUOTE=Prism;45500302]I believe that no western european has any idea what it actually is to live in a country with Roma. Here in Bulgaria we have whole gypsy-only appartment buildings who REFUSE to pay their heating, water or electricity bills so their neighbours are forced to pay them for them, because if anyone were to try and cut them off, the gypsies start protesting about discrimination. As said in the video, one of the practices gypsies have for getting a living is to pick metal. In itself thats illegal but we've gone to the point where we had a PSA on NATIONAL TV during PRIME TIME to BEG gypsies to stop stealing insulation from over-ground heating pipes, as it is not actually metal and they cannot sell it for anything. Another popular practice is to have ~15 children per family and get financial aid for htem. Why? Because they like family. Can they feed and take care of them? No. Do they know that they can't? Yeah, they do. Do they still make more babies? Yeah, they do. Even after the government offered gypsy families free access to condoms, none of them actually used them. I don't even know why. Just imagine а gypsy wagon being pulled by a horse somewhere in your average clean european capital, cruising around at a speed of 15 km/h. And then the horse starts shitting on the road. Over my 20 year lifetime I have not had a single good experience with the Roma. This includes back when I was ~6 years old and I had a Roma friend. I remember how he would go around trashcans and look for cigarette stumps, which he would then try to smoke. At the age of 6. He did not go to school because he thought it was boring. So yes, I do believe the report is bias since it portrays the Roma as the victim and the authorities as the villain, taking their homes away.[/QUOTE] Nobody will know the true Balkan suffering with the gypsies, and I've already given up arguing on FP because every single fucking time social justice brigade from the other side of the world comes and spouts shit they know nothing about and it gets me banned in the end.
i'm so glad i don't live in eastern europe or balkan among these dirty folks. the only time i ever see gypsies in my country is when they're picking up cans and bottles at festivals and outdoor parties for recycling money
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;45500703]Same thing happens here in Portugal. Cops wont do a thing because they are scared as hell of them, and with reason, and whenever theres a trial involving gypsy people, they bring in the big guys to keep everything calm, not the average cops. And if you accidentaly run over a gypsy, you best just get the fuck out of there. No really, [b]don't wait[/b], or the fact that you could go to trial and maybe even go to jail probably won't cross your head soon enough before you get revenge stabbed, even if you aren't at fault.[/QUOTE] Yeah, no joke. If the cops here want to get something from a gypsy village they'll bring a fucking army. [video=youtube;DMMjk5NYTAs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMMjk5NYTAs[/video] [video=youtube;gRRlIBjnggQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRRlIBjnggQ[/video]
more roma live in US than any other country [editline]25th July 2014[/editline] Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;45501221]more roma live in US than any other country [editline]25th July 2014[/editline] Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.[/QUOTE] The difference is is that some European countries are vastly smaller than the US, so the problem becomes much more prevelant. When you have gypsies set up camp in your town you can expect crime rates to go up massively and say goodbye to taking your kids to the park for at least 2-3 weeks. There are campsites but they refuse to use them. The council need more powers to remove them more quickly. I'm not racist or whatever you'd like to call it, but when you have a community of people who are not in full time employment, do not pay taxes, and leech off society using the services that the taxpayer money pays for, you do not deserve the right to lead that kind of life when it has such a negative impact on other people.
[QUOTE=Hugg;45499395]Video doesn't seem that biased, even the comment about change in the neighborhood is what is happening, how is it biased?[/QUOTE] She's blatantly stating that the problem is coming from the "people who aren't ready for change" and absolving the Roma from any fault Completely glossing over the negative aspects of their lifestyle or defending it as "their culture" is just as bad for them as the far right anti-immigration idiots Elvis is the kind of guy who'll actually get things done while both sides spew shit [editline]25th July 2014[/editline] Shame people lack the brain cells necessary to choose something other than "all Roma are thieves" or "no Roma are thieves"
[QUOTE=Noss;45501234]The difference is is that some European countries are vastly smaller than the US, so the problem becomes much more prevelant. When you have gypsies set up camp in your town you can expect crime rates to go up massively and say goodbye to taking your kids to the park for at least 2-3 weeks. There are campsites but they refuse to use them. The council need more powers to remove them more quickly. I'm not racist or whatever you'd like to call it, but when you have a community of people who are not in full time employment, do not pay taxes, and leech off society using the services that the taxpayer money pays for, you do not deserve the right to lead that kind of life when it has such a negative impact on other people.[/QUOTE] The problem is that in the US, that's not really an issue since everyone challenges the rules, fights with the cops and tries to get away with shit. All the shit people are complaining about with Roma are things that the Average American does all the time.
the irish gypsy (traveller) racism where i live is unbelievable i don't believe it's right that these groups get the benefits without having to contribute but i don't hate them as a whole for it. it's a problem of some families refusing to adapting and modernise, not the fact that they're roma or irish gypsies alone; to say that you hate gypsies is to be racist. [editline]26th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Spirit_Breaker;45500854]Nobody will know the true Balkan suffering with the gypsies, and I've already given up arguing on FP because every single fucking time social justice brigade from the other side of the world comes and spouts shit they know nothing about and it gets me banned in the end.[/QUOTE] lol [editline]26th July 2014[/editline] there are problems with roma/irish traveller society. there's a stigma towards education and many other good, progressive things but not all of them are like that. you'll find that is more because of the families than because they're gypsies
The issue I have with people complaining about the Roma is because it sounds eerily similar to complaints lodged from white Americans complaining about *insert minority here*. The Roma are kicked out of there homes, can't find work, live in shit stain conditions and you're surprised they turn to crime? They've been dealing with this for centuries, how do you think they'll react?
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