What does refinancing a home have to do with a secretary of education?
Like I understand the "College debt" part but what college kid buys a home in college
[QUOTE=Stroheim;51787670]What does refinancing a home have to do with a secretary of education[/QUOTE]
Betsy DeVos didn't make the connection that students being super in debt is harming the housing market.
The student loan crisis is going to be the next bubble that pops.
[QUOTE=Llamaguy;51787676]Betsy DeVos didn't make the connection that students being super in debt is harming the housing market.
[B]The student loan crisis is going to be the next bubble that pops.[/B][/QUOTE]
Does that mean I should pay off my loans faster or not at all
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51787684]Does that mean I should pay off my loans faster or not at all[/QUOTE]
Debatable. You're speaking if the govt will forgive student loans? I'm in no way an expert, but given this administration's stance on education and connections to Wall Street, I heavily doubt it.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51787684]Does that mean I should pay off my loans faster or not at all[/QUOTE]
as slowly as possible.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;51787703]as slowly as possible.[/QUOTE]
As someone currently paying off just over $20,000 in student loans still, I am very interested in this.
If someone (or someones) would be willing to discuss what exactly would happen if the bubble pops, and how people currently paying off student loans should address this potential upcoming pop, I would really appreciate it.
I know that's a needy, selfish thing to ask. But here I am, asking it anyways. :v:
This is why I'm going back to grad school. You don't have to pay off your loans if you're still taking full-time classes.
[QUOTE=Gmod4ever;51787722]As someone currently paying off just over $20,000 in student loans still, I am very interested in this.
If someone (or someones) would be willing to discuss what exactly would happen if the bubble pops, and how people currently paying off student loans should address this potential upcoming pop, I would really appreciate it.
I know that's a needy, selfish thing to ask. But here I am, asking it anyways. :v:[/QUOTE]
I was being facetious, you should probably continue paying off your student loans, under a Trump presidency don't expect any financial easing unless you're part of the top 1%.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;51787684]Does that mean I should pay off my loans faster or not at all[/QUOTE]
How about paying your loan because you agreed to do so and it's the right thing to do?
[QUOTE=glitchvid;51787762]I was being facetious, you should probably continue paying off your student loans, under a Trump presidency don't expect any financial easing unless you're part of the top 1%.[/QUOTE]
Well I didn't have any plans to stop it, but just more the speed of. Keep paying at the current rate, or pay off faster, was my bigger issue.
I won't lie when I say I am decidedly ignorant when it comes to things like economical bubbles and preparing for them.
[QUOTE=Gmod4ever;51787790]Well I didn't have any plans to stop it, but just more the speed of. Keep paying at the current rate, or pay off faster, was my bigger issue.
[B]I won't lie when I say I am decidedly ignorant when it comes to things like economical bubbles and preparing for them.[/B][/QUOTE]
If this is the case, you should probably not be betting on a bubble :v:
[QUOTE=sgman91;51787782]How about paying your loan because you agreed to do so and it's the right thing to do?[/QUOTE]
is anyone really going to shed tears over a bank or lender losing out on $20k? a drop in the ocean for them but a world of difference for someone living with that debt
[QUOTE=DFC;51787806]If this is the case, you should probably not be betting on a bubble :v:[/QUOTE]
Hey, that's exactly why I ask! :smile:
[QUOTE=krail9;51787807]is anyone really going to shed tears over a bank or lender losing out on $20k? a drop in the ocean for them but a world of difference for someone living with that debt[/QUOTE]
Personally, holding to agreements that I make matters to me. Our modern society would fall apart if everyone lived by the sentiment that you just espoused.
As a side note: 20k isn't even that much to pay back if your degree gets you a decent job. Think of it like a new car, but worth even more in the long run.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51787848]As a side note: 20k isn't even that much to pay back if your degree gets you a decent job. Think of it like a new car, but worth even more in the long run.[/QUOTE]
Assuming you do land a job. And we're not just talking Social Sciences here - degree never assures that you will get a job that will allow you to pay it off.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51787782]How about paying your loan because you agreed to do so and it's the right thing to do?[/QUOTE]
Student loans are more vicious than you're giving them credit for, man. The average student with $40,000 in loans gets a $400 chunk taken out of their paycheck every month. For ten years. If you go out of state for college, or don't get scholarships, $70,000 in debt is not uncommon. That's $700 a month on most payment plans. And if you decide to go for a more expensive degree, like law or medicine, you'll end up with $100,000+ and $1000+ a month in payments.
How, exactly, is one supposed to achieve the upward mobility granted from a college degree if they end up working a $25/hour job for just above minimum wage? How are you supposed to buy a house, or save for retirement, or contribute to the economy in any meaningful way if all your income is being funneled into paying off an overpriced degree?
How is feeding a predatory lending system that operates largely unchecked and often forces its users into poverty the right thing to do?
Student loans hurt everyone, not just the people paying them. They've ruined the accessibility of higher education, which reinforces class divisions and limits upward mobility, especially for minorities and people currently living in poverty. And that hurts our economy overall, as buying power is reduced and currency sequestration occurs among the middle and upper classes.
Couple that with a poor jobs market and rising inflation, and we have a failure of a system that is an economic blight on society.
_
Also, assuming a degree will "pay off" assumes the recipient is going into a high-earning field. But there are plenty of low-earning fields that benefit society great deals, often more than the endless torrent of bankers or accountants that will be replaced by the machines in the coming decades. Artists, architects, musicians, playwrights and screenwriters, journalists (hey!), physicists, mathematicians, teachers... There are plenty of fields that don't pay off quickly or at all, but society would crumble more if these people weren't around than if they stopped paying their loans.
Unless you don't enjoy watching television, going to the movies, or being literate, anyway.
[QUOTE=El Periodista;51787868]
How, exactly, is one supposed to achieve the upward mobility granted from a college degree if they end up working a $25/hour job for just above minimum wage?[/QUOTE]
I'm a bit confused about this sentence.
[QUOTE=gufu;51787875]I'm a bit confused about this sentence.[/QUOTE]
That calculation was done assuming $100,000 in loan debt on a $48,000/year income, which is not uncommon. (It's just on the higher end of the bell curve, but I've got friends $80k into a four-year journalism program.) Out of the $4000 monthly you would receive, $1000 would go to the loan, and various other fees would come out for taxes, social security, etc. I'm heavily ballparking here, but it's likely you'd be looking at somewhere around $28,000 in take-home pay per year. (I'm a journalist because I'm bad at math. I apologize.)
And that's before any other debts, like credit cards, rent, house payments, car payments, that sort of thing. It's remarkably easy to be making a salary of $50,000 or more and have no expendable income at all.
[QUOTE=El Periodista;51787905]That calculation was done assuming $100,000 in loan debt on a $48,000/year income, which is not uncommon. (It's just on the higher end of the bell curve, but I've got friends $80k into a four-year journalism program.) Out of the $4000 monthly you would receive, $1000 would go to the loan, and various other fees would come out for taxes, social security, etc. I'm heavily ballparking here, but it's likely you'd be looking at somewhere around $28,000 in take-home pay per year. (I'm a journalist because I'm bad at math. I apologize.)
And that's before any other debts, like credit cards, rent, house payments, car payments, that sort of thing. It's remarkably easy to be making a salary of $50,000 or more and have no expendable income at all.[/QUOTE]
Anyone who owns $100,000 and makes $48,000/year made some very bad choices. That assumes A) that you didn't work at all while in school and B) that you didn't take advantage of community college/in-state tuition/living with roommates/etc.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51787934]Anyone who owns $100,000 and makes $48,000/year made some very bad choices. That assumes A) that you didn't work at all while in school and B) that you didn't take advantage of community college/in-state tuition/living with roommates/etc.[/QUOTE]
I assume when you're talking about A, you're talking about scholarships: Which are practically randomly allocated and cannot be relied upon.
And when it comes to B, you can only reduce your expenses so far and still pursue specific degrees.
As for 48k with 100k in debt: You take whichever job goes your way nowdays, and try to get something better if it comes by. After 5 years of college as CS major, I'm currently working 7.30 per hour retail, despite searching for a WebDev/SE position for almost 3 years now.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51787934]Anyone who owns $100,000 and makes $48,000/year made some very bad choices.[/QUOTE]
Maybe they did. But you're ignoring the greater discussion entirely here.
Have you ever had to pay for a dorm? That's $40,000 right there at most colleges. If you live off campus in most major college towns, you're looking at $1000 a month, maybe $800 with roommates. But then you need a car, which is $5-10,000 or more, and gas to put in that car, and food (and if your university forces you to buy a dining plan, that's another $2-4000 over four years), and textbooks (dear God), and there are associated class and lab fees which aren't covered in tuition...
Point being, college spirals out of control far too fast. It does that because student loans exist. As we see with health insurance, or credit cards, or car loans, adding an influx of fake money into a market causes ridiculous inflation at unchecked rates.
So yes, someone making $48,000 on a $100,000 loan may have made some bad choices... Or they may have made some choices that seemed perfectly reasonable within the current economic framework that we've built around our current system. Which would indicate that it is the system that's flawed, and not the decision-making ability of the rational actors working within it.
But I don't think that really agrees with your bootstraps mentality, does it?
(I'm in the mood to call out some bullshit tonight. Come at me.)
[editline]7th February 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=gufu;51787952]I assume when you're talking about A, you're talking about scholarships: Which are practically randomly allocated and cannot be relied upon.
And when it comes to B, you can only reduce your expenses so far and still pursue specific degrees.
As for 48k with 100k in debt: You take whichever job goes your way nowdays, and try to get something better if it comes by. After 5 years of college as CS major, I'm currently working 7.30 per hour retail, despite searching for a WebDev/SE position for almost 3 years now.[/QUOTE]
Oh, this brings up another excellent point! Jobs with required experience and local market availability are two major considerations that most people either don't realize before getting a degree, or are never informed or aware of at all.
And there's the thing about the robots, which... Let's be honest, the AP's already using robots to write news articles. I'm obsolete before 2030. CS majors are probably going to share the same fate, and with the rate colleges are pumping those out... Ooooh boy. That'll be fun.
[QUOTE=El Periodista;51787954]Maybe they did. But you're ignoring the greater discussion entirely here.
Have you ever had to pay for a dorm? That's $40,000 right there at most colleges. If you live off campus in most major college towns, you're looking at $1000 a month, maybe $800 with roommates. But then you need a car, which is $5-10,000 or more, and gas to put in that car, and food (and if your university forces you to buy a dining plan, that's another $2-4000 over four years), and textbooks (dear God), and there are associated class and lab fees which aren't covered in tuition...
Point being, college spirals out of control far too fast. It does that because student loans exist. As we see with health insurance, or credit cards, or car loans, adding an influx of fake money into a market causes ridiculous inflation at unchecked rates.
So yes, someone making $48,000 on a $100,000 loan may have made some bad choices... Or they may have made some choices that seemed perfectly reasonable within the current economic framework that we've built around our current system. Which would indicate that it is the system that's flawed, and not the decision-making ability of the rational actors working within it.
But I don't think that really agrees with your bootstraps mentality, does it?
(I'm in the mood to call out some bullshit tonight. Come at me.)[/QUOTE]
You keep making assumptions as if they're necessities. Why go to a big college town when there are plenty of decent smaller and cheaper schools? Why spend $5k on a car (my current car was less than $3k in California)? Etc.
I really think you're dismissing the choices that come into play.
[editline]6th February 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=gufu;51787952]I assume when you're talking about A, you're talking about scholarships: Which are practically randomly allocated and cannot be relied upon.
And when it comes to B, you can only reduce your expenses so far and still pursue specific degrees.
As for 48k with 100k in debt: You take whichever job goes your way nowdays, and try to get something better if it comes by. After 5 years of college as CS major, I'm currently working 7.30 per hour retail, despite searching for a WebDev/SE position for almost 3 years now.[/QUOTE]
No, I'm talking about actually working while in college. That was considered the norm 30 years ago. About the other choices: community college works for basically any degree and cuts costs almost in half, as just one example.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51787963]
No, I'm talking about actually working while in college. That was considered the norm 30 years ago. About the other choices: community college works for basically any degree and cuts costs almost in half, as just one example.[/QUOTE]
While in college I worked between 30 to 40 hour weeks for 8.30 an hour. At best, I could cover some car expenses.
[QUOTE=gufu;51787972]While in college I worked between 30 to 40 hour weeks for 8.30 an hour. At best, I could cover some car expenses.[/QUOTE]
How did you manage to spend $14,000+/year on car expenses?
[QUOTE=sgman91;51787976]How did you manage to spend $14,000+/year on car expenses?[/QUOTE]
Well, the car is included as post requirements expense (food, rent, etc).
[QUOTE=sgman91;51787963]You keep making assumptions as if they're necessities. Why go to a big college town when there are plenty of decent smaller and cheaper schools? Why spend $5k on a car (my current car was less than $3k in California)? Etc.
I really think you're dismissing the choices that come into play.
[/QUOTE]
Sure, community college is great if you want to work in retail, or be a pharmacist, or work in a trade. That's great. Fantastic. And cheap. But once you get into business, finance, computer science, engineering, even journalism, the school you come from matters a lot. Believe it or not, there is a remarkable weight to who signs off on a degree.
Not to mention the lack of networking opportunities present at community colleges, which in today's job market, sets students up for nothing but failure. Networking is probably more important than anything you actually learn in class, and you can only really do that at major universities.
As for working through college, that was fine when colleges didn't have mandatory four-year degrees with eighteen-hour semesters. When you could go to college for five years, you had time to pick up a few extracurriculars and get a job as a soda jerk. But we don't live thirty years ago. Colleges today are degree mills, and their goal is to get students through the doors and into the job market as quickly as possible.
And even then, my parents are still paying student loans from thirty years ago. So your argument doesn't really hold up there. Granted, they've since gone on to get MBAs, and my mother got a Ph.D and now works at a research university making more than my father ever did, but they'll be paying those loans until they die.
_
Don't get me wrong, I've been relatively fortunate. I have a stable family, who I lived with through college and continue to live with, I've received numerous scholarships that have almost totally offset the cost of my tuition, and I only have $20,000 in student loan debt, $10,000 of which is actually a car (my Mini exploded, so I had to buy a new car halfway through my sophomore year.) I've never had to live in a dorm, never had to live in an apartment. I've worked a part-time job as a copy editor for a local newspaper for three years, only quitting last year to focus on my studies. I do freelancing here and there, and I flip vintage furniture. I've got a decent little income.
But there are a lot of people that are nowhere near as fortunate as I've been. And the law of averages doesn't hold up in fighter plane cockpits or educational economics. There are better systems for this that benefit their users far, far more than ours. It's a little silly to cling to something so clearly broken just out of... pride? Honor? A sense of duty to your debtors?
State over from me just passed a law mandating $500/semester tuitions for in-state students at public universities. They expect a massive boom in the job market over the next ten years because of it, and a $100m profit on taxes in twenty. Combined with an increased focus on internet infrastructure, they're shaping up to create their own little Silicon Valley in the heart of the Southeast. That's the kind of system we should aspire to, not trapping people in garbage loans or requiring absurd gymnastics because that's the way things have always been done. Things change. The system can be improved.
I have an engineering degree and, no, going to community college to finish your AA before transferring to a 4 year doesn't hurt you at all because it's not what shows up on your final degree after you transfer.
I also worked through college taking 14-22 units a quarter. So don't lecture me, please. The fact that you spent $10,000 on a car while in college tells me that you don't have any idea what it's like having to make hard choices about how to save money.
My family is also decently middle class, but they refused to help me pay for college. So I bought myself a used $3,000 Civic, worked through school, and got out with very little debt and an electrical engineering degree. It's doable.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51787997]I have an engineering degree and, no, going to community college to finish your AA before transferring to a 4 year doesn't hurt you at all because it's not what shows up on your final degree after you transfer.
I also worked through college taking 14-22 units a quarter. So don't lecture me, please.[/QUOTE]
I'm a journalist, studying to teach journalism. Lecturing is what I do.
Mind if I ask what you spent on your degree, and what you're making? I mean, you're in California (I presume, considering), so you've got to remember the job market there is vastly different from the job market here, or the job market in New York, or Illinois, or pretty much anywhere else.
[QUOTE=El Periodista;51788004]I'm a journalist, studying to teach journalism. Lecturing is what I do.
Mind if I ask what you spent on your degree, and what you're making? I mean, you're in California (I presume, considering), so you've got to remember the job market there is vastly different from the job market here, or the job market in New York, or Illinois, or pretty much anywhere else.[/QUOTE]
I spent ~$30,000 and make ~$60,000. You're right, the job markets are very different, but there's nothing wrong with moving for a first job. I almost took a job in Texas before being offered the one that I have currently.
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