Don't buy anything OTHER THAN IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad T, X, and W/P Series if you want the Real Business Experience™
Libreboot-compatible models:
T60, X60; X200, T400/500
Modern models:
X220/X230 - 12", 768p, cheap and light
T420/T430 - 14", 900p, widely available, socketed CPU, Ivy Bridge installable w/ Coreboot on T420; Old keyboard swap on *30 series
T/W52/30 - 15", 1080p, DTR, 32GB RAM on quadcore models, USB 3
T440p/540p; W540/1 - Last Thinkpads with socketed processors, easily replaceable trackpad (W541 doesn't need trackpad replacement)
P-Series - 15'' + 17'', 4K display, 64gb of RAM, Xeon CPU option. Expensive. Bad stock cooling reported by multiple owners.
Why ThinkPad?
Used machines are plentiful and cheap
Excellent keyboards - tactile feel and quiet
Great durability: magnesium rollcage for structural integrity, with high quality plastic body panels
Utilitarian design: e.g. indicator LEDs, 7 row keyboard layout on older models
Docking stations that easily turns your laptop into a desktop
Easy to repair (most models), upgrade & maintain thanks to readily available service manuals for every model, spare parts easy & cheap to obtain
The best TrackPoint, great for those who type a lot or hate swiping their fingers all over a touchpad
Excellent GNU/Linux & *BSD support
Hardware Maintenance Manuals (HMM's) and Windows drivers for legacy devices:
http://download.lenovo.com/eol
Used laptop guides by xsauc:
http://www.dankpads.com
ThinkWiki - Info on ThinkPads & running GNU/Linux on them:
https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki
ThinkPad service guides w/ tutorial videos:
https://www.lenovoservicetraining.com/
EPP discount for new ThinkPads:
http://pastebin.com/JVwVGVTW
BIOS logo booru:
Thinkpad BIOS Splash Images
(thread completely plagiarized from /tpg/)
post ur thinkpads friends
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/180360/16429f7b-91b7-4cf3-88d8-558fce3f8948/x61s.jpg
my old COMFY X61S
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/2014/2f5c0746-0d8a-46dd-aa05-773dd3671d02/THINK-II.jpg
No really.
https://i.imgur.com/VCqSJgM.jpg
comfy x230. got it for next to nothing compared to my local prices, but the display is TN and it needs a new battery. don't much like how it uses miniDP instead of HDMI, either, and there's next to no info on which cheap adapters will work with it.
I can send pics later but I used a SL510 until around this time last year. I moved up to XPS15 but man I miss that machine every day of my life. The screen is absolute crap compared to the XPS and it was slow as balls but it was so comfortable and easy to use and serviceable. I switched out everything inside that machine. I still have it around, will never get rid of it until it dies on me proper. I'm pretty sure it will outlast the Dell.
Cross posting from CIPWTTKT, T400 and T60 here.
https://i.imgur.com/cn7tg8L.jpg
(rip oldpunch)
Does anyone have any clue why the T400 wouldn't be able to take more than 3GB of RAM without failing to POST? All sticks I've tried are good, proper voltage and speed, but I get a 1-3-3-1 beep code every time 4GB or more is installed. Is it just a bad board or is there some kind of weird built in limitation to some models? I know people have gotten these things up to 8GB.
your RAM modules must be DDR3-1033mhz 1.5V. if they're low voltage like 1.35V, they won't work. using faster modules won't work either
I said in my post that the voltage and speeds were correct. The 4GB PC-8500 1.5v stick I tried using in both slots didn't work, and no combination of different sticks and speeds seem to get it to go past 3GB.
Also, what you said wasn't even true since I'm currently using 2 1.35v modules, so it must be capable of undervolting them.
I got this baby https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:S440
Sadly the sceen is pretty shit but it is stil rocking. My only gripe is that the RAM (8GB) can not be upgraded since it only has one slot
Since this thread is now a thing I can post my story of trying to bring a ROYALLY fucked up X41t back to life.
Background: I got this TP from a friend after he finally got it from his bat-shit insane ex after forgetting it in his flat. He received it with the charger plug cut off, missing battery and no way to test it if it works, so he gave it to me to check if there's something wrong with it and to replace the plug. These pictures were took only to update my friend on the status of the laptop and showing him the horrors I found. His ex was so salty that he sneakily on purpose tried to kill the laptop. I checked the HDD and it was off and not used for a longer period of time.
First I went to getting fixing the charger connector. Since there wasn't really anything online about what kind of plug it uses, I ordered all different versions of barrel DC connectors from my local hardware store and test fitted everything. Seems like a barrel connector with 5.5mm outer diameter and 2.5mm inner diameter with 14mm length did the job (although it should be around 10-12mm in width)
http://i.heykidwannayiff.com/Telegram_2018-03-08_16-05-18.png
http://i.heykidwannayiff.com/Telegram_2018-03-17_17-30-11.png
Progress on repairing the charger with only headshrink used inside of the plug for testing. After checking the polarity and correct voltage with multimeter I tried to power on the laptop, but I didn't get any signs of life. Upon further inspection I noticed this poking two wires out from the laptop.
http://i.heykidwannayiff.com/Telegram_2018-03-21_20-35-40.png
And here came the first "oh shit" moment and quickly disconnected it, praying that I didn't toast anything. I went to open it but surprise motherfucker, several screws are stripped, no tricks for extracting stripped screws worked so I had to drill them out
http://i.heykidwannayiff.com/Telegram_2018-03-21_20-35-58.png
After finally getting access to the main board through the keyboard, I noticed that the wires are badly soldered onto the DC jack and the crappy soldering job obliterated some components like that barely holding on resistor
http://i.heykidwannayiff.com/Telegram_2018-03-21_20-35-16.png
http://i.heykidwannayiff.com/Telegram_2018-03-17_17-31-40.png
What the fuck man
I got rid of those solder blobs, fixed anything visibly damaged and bridged on purpose and tried again with no power. I completely disassembled it and went all Louis Rossman on the mainboard and checking voltage and connection on the mobo. Guess what. The jackass cut the positive DC jack pin.
http://i.heykidwannayiff.com/Telegram_2018-03-17_15-13-48.png
After getting the power fixed and making sure once again that the power is fine (the large white cap should have 16v) I tried to power it up. I got a blank screen, only power indicator with fan spinning and two error beeps. According the documentation two beeps with blank screen means DIMM problem or main board being toast, and seeing as X41t has built-in soldered ram, it only had to be the latter. I was about to give up at this point and plugged in an external monitor to see if only the screen is not fucked.
http://i.heykidwannayiff.com/Telegram_2018-03-21_21-07-31.png
It only bitched about the time and date being wrong and that's why it beeped twice.
Anyway turns out that either the flex cable is damaged, the CCFL backlight is dead or the inverter board is toast, because when I shine a light at the screen I can a picture.
http://i.heykidwannayiff.com/Telegram_2018-03-21_21-09-29.png
Now I just have to source replacement parts that are really hard to find and can't find anywhere without stupid price or shipping.
And that concludes the story of a X41t Thinkpad that just refuses to kick the bucket.
Hey, that's still pretty good. Are there any guides on good and bad third-party batteries, or is it always just an ebay roulette?
And @Thunderysteak Thinkwiki has info on all the connectors but it doesn't list width or polarity sadly, good thing you managed to find one and tested everything to make sure it worked.
The third party batteries tend to be unbranded, and some of them will spoof their firmware to read out fake capacities. Lenovo's Power Manager will give you false readings (shutting off while you supposedly have 20% or so left) but something like BatteryBar doesn't.
I have both a genuine and third party 9 cell pack for my X230 and they both are perfectly fine once you deal with the capacity BS.
I'm always intrigued by those tablet convertable thinkpads, they sound weird but look cool at the same time.
Here are my meme machines, a T420 with the i5 and NVIDIA NVS 4200 GPU and a uncommon X100e variant on the right.
https://i.imgur.com/4DSKMUi.jpg
There's actually an interesting story about this version of the x100e. For those who don't know, Lenovo was commissioned to produce a special version of the X100e that were distributed to Australian schools (NSW and VIC recieved initially recieved the Ideapad S9 / S10, other states got Acer netbooks) in 2010, under the state and federal governments plan for each student to receive their very own laptop. The one in the pictures is the very same one I got under the program, and have owned it since new. This replaced the Lenovo Ideapad S9 machine I had previously, which cracked up just above the screen hinge. Apparently all of the S9 / S10 series Ideapads suffered from this, and were all eventually recalled and replaced .
The main differences between the x100e and this different version is instead of the AMD Neo CPU, it was replaced with a lower power (and shithouse) Intel Atom N450 running at 1.66ghz, 1GB RAM and a 160GB Hitach hard drive. To further differentiate these, they stuck a big-ass bezel around the screen and shrunk it down to a 10.1 inch 1280x720 display, hence the reason why they were called the Mini 10 by Lenovo. They came standard with the full 6-cell battery, the 65w charger and a custom made plastic case. 95% of these cases broke within the first two weeks of being given out because the plastic around the clamps was too thin. I remember seeing heaps of these smashed up and broken all around my high school, as well when I volunteered to wipe these machines in my high school's IT department.
https://i.imgur.com/YWX7OUz.jpg
Most of these came with a bloated to hell copy of Windows 7 Enterprise (remember these were used in schools), but by request could have the OS changed back to a clean copy of XP Pro, recieve a RAM upgrade to the 2GB maximum, or even change out the hard drive to a 64GB SSD.
Some of these actually have a locked down BIOS, which pretty much prevents the students from changing anything. These versions are actually very easy to spot, since they have the blue top and sides instead of the all-black finish. There were rumours that these tracked students, but were debunked later down the line after a teardown revealed nothing out of the ordinary. These versions were mostly found in NSW schools, but some made their way across the border into VIC, abiet much more uncommon than the standard unlocked ones like mine.
https://i.imgur.com/Mn1W84Q.jpg
Apart from a few differences, the case is exactly the same as a regular x100e, which means that the motherboard can be swapped for the faster AMD Neo version, or the screen changed to the 1366x768 version, provided the bezel is changed as well.
As far as I know, these special versions were never sold commercially, so there was only around 100 - 150,000 of these machines produced. Because of how shit the atom CPU is and how many were destroyed, I reckon there's far less than that out there nowadays.
https://i.imgur.com/hoBYZqA.jpg
this thing has gotten me through my graphic design and programming career. my only regret is not picking it up sooner because she's nearing the end and I've sadly had to start looking at other models
can anyone recommend the p51?
we issue the p51 a lot at work.
It's a little on the heavier side. They follow the W5xx tradition of being hilariously horrible to repair and we haven't had the best reliability out of them.
When they work, they're good, but neither the screen nor specs are of any significant note - they're just your average mobile workstation.
Interested in getting one of these since the brand has a charm. Always wanted to try getting into linux too. My uses are limited since I have a desktop. Finances, casual gaming with older titles ), & every day activities. I'm primarily interested in the X200/220 T400/420 and I had some questions:
Which one would be the best in all aspects? When I ask this I mean which one has the most available spare parts on market including batteries & accessories, the easiest to find in good condition, and best overall feel/look/features. What is the most I should pay for that particular model? Where is the best place to buy one? Is this whole libreboot thing a must? How often do unauthorized third parties actually access people's computers through intel's backdoor?
I accidentally a T470p. Have you tried the touch version? I'm a little bummed that I didn't go for it, but then again the double-capacity battery makes it so you can't bend back the screen and lay it flat on the table.
https://track5.mixtape.moe/vrklir.jpg
The X series is the smol portable flavor, whereas the T series is the medium sized line. The next step up is W, so whichever you think you have the space/carrying capacity for. There are tablet versions of the X line which can switcharoo into a tablet (whoda thunk it) on which you can draw on it using the included (usually, check with seller if it's included) stylus. Drivers permitting of course. Windows 10 has good support for this feature out of the box.
Any thinkpad will run linux just fine, but beware switchable/hybrid graphics. Driver support for Linux is nonexistent and you'll probably be stuck with integrated graphics if you choose a model with this.
I'm generally stoked with my experience of my T400, with the exception of the bizarre problem I posted up above, and of course the issue of Linux's poor graphics driver support. The T420 is generally considered a good all-rounder and is probably the most popular "old style" thinkpad. I have no experience with Nvidia's switchable graphics variant so Linux might like it better, but keep in mind that you might be stuck with Windows 7/10 if you want to take advantage of that extra power. You can set the performance graphics to run full time in the BIOS but you will likely run HOTT in Linux due to poor power management driver support unless you can scrounge something up.
Libreboot looks largely like a tinfoil hatter's mod considering that I've never seen anyone in the real world get their shit hacked because of a lack of it. Spectre and Meltdown aren't nearly the massive industry destroying plague that the media would have you think it is, the FBI likely know enough about you from your Google and Facebook activity already. But take someone who's more educated on that subject's opinion instead of my stupid ass.
Plz do not be afraid to ask about anything and everything! No dumb questions here.
Oh yeah and IBM thinkpads are pure collector's items. Stick to Core 2 Duo 2.4ghz and up unless you want to be a e s t h e t i c.
Thank you for your hospitality & answering my questions. I think I prefer the x200/x220 in terms of aesthetics and a smaller form has caught my interest. However I wouldn't turn down any of the ones I listed or even the ones you listed if the price & condition was right. What is the most you would pay for any one of these? Is anything over 200 too much? 170 even?
I love thinkpads, I got a T430 for in the workshop sitting between the welder and grinder. Thing is indestructible.
I also use it to tune/diagnose/fix racecars, but I'm looking to get something a bit smaller to fit in my lap when I'm sitting in the car. I was thinking of trying a X230?
Must have high res screen, read somewhere that there is a mod for it, but I'm not sure how easy that is.
Being able to run VM's would be a plus as most of my software needs XP. But could also dual boot.
Oh yeah and I dislike the newer keyboards, I read that you can use a X220 keyboard on a X230 is that correct?
Lastly, what kind of battery life can I expect from it?
Thanks!
Due to the customizable nature of thinkpads, both in terms of slight model variations and end-user modifications, the price sweetspot will vary wildly depending on what's actually in the machine. Is it the stock 2GB RAM or have they upgraded it to 8? Is it the one with a shite 1280x768 screen or is it the fancy rare 1080p variant? etc etc etc. A good idea if you're shopping on Ebay is to tick the "sold listings" box when searching. There you can see what the going rate actually is without having to guesstimate whether or not you're being screwed using the active listing's prices.
The """IDEAL""" place to buy thinkpads is from a business or educational institution that's selling them off en masse for cheap. Reputable sellers are sometimes hard to come by but this route is regarded as the best because those laptops will most likely have just been sitting in a dock/drawer for most of their lives, barely touched if at all, in pristine condition. I bought my T400 from my college's store for $100.
And always, always ALWAYS be sure you see an actual, high quality picture of the computer you're buying, even if you have to ask the seller for it directly. Those listings that just give generic stock images with ms paint text splattered all over them don't sit right with me. PayPal and Ebay have your back in the case of outright scams, of course, but an unexpected scratch across the palm rest or lid cover is a heartbreaker. Also beware of listings that just use one of the laptops as an example for the rest of the lot that they're selling off; the T60 I bought was supposed to be IBM branded but came as you saw it.
Libreboot is mostly useful if you're trying to run a full system on FOSS. On it's own it isn't very effective and you would propably be better off running the normal BIOS.
Thinkpad screens thankfully use pretty standard components and shouldn't be too hard to find upgrades for, and shouldn't be too hard to install, but I don't know your skill level. But anything's possible with a youtube tutorial, a screwdriver set, a screw keeping bowl and lots of patience. Make sure for certain that the upgrade that you want is possible before dropping money on it though.
Multiple operating systems running off of an SSD sounds like a good setup for you, a rough and tumble environment like a workshop sounds a bit iffy for the standard HDD. Virtualbox should run okay on those machines though if you want to go that route.
You CAN use an old 7 row keyboard on the X230, but the lenovo forums cry key mismatches, with no BIOS fix in sight (plz correct me if that's old news.) I think I also heard something in the Computer Illiterates Thread about how one of the pins catches fire (harmlessly) on a swapped keyboard due to the pins misaligning resulting in a burning smell. If anyone could track down that post I would love that.
About battery life, a word to you both. Assume your batteries will arrive dead. At best, the lithium ion gods will bestow upon thee 30-50% life left assuming it's what the laptop shipped with from the factory. New batteries exist, but they often vary in actual capacity vs advertised capacity. Mine has 84 watt hours written on the body, but Lenovo Power Manager tells me it's a 64 watt hour nyko cell. If I had any sense back then I would have demanded at least a partial refund. As for fresh batteries, power on time can range from anywhere between 4-10 hours on a T H I C C 9-cell battery depending on your power saving mode and what you're doing. Leaving my laptop on the desktop, in power saving mode, without anything going on with the screen brightness all the way down gives me 10 hours max on my T400. On Linux, it's usually less due to the shit power management drivers that I mentioned earlier.
To be honest I've seen more people disable the touchscreen because they smashed the corner of the screen in, than people actually legitimately using the touchscreen (or the lay-flat feature).
They're kind of gimmicky on this type of laptop (especially with the display hinge on newer thinkpads being a little wishy washy) and 14" at 1080p is right around the sweet spot for 100% scaling in windows or linux.
My X220 running Hackintosh was mad comfy. Shame I ended needing a better iGPU after a while and had to get a real MacBook Pro. I would've stayed on it a lot longer if not for that.
I will always miss the clit mouse
the only thing I don't like about the nipple on my X220 is that it sometimes starts to drift after i've been using it for awhile
im probably pressing on it too hard
all of them do that
you want to kind of drift it side to side rather than put any serious force down on it, the bowl shaped nub helps with that
The track point recalibrates itself when it detects constant, steady pressure in any one particular direction. You can trigger drift reliably by holding it very still in one direction until it stops moving, then releasing it. Happens most often when I'm trying to steadily scroll content.
My x220's fan was incredibly loud for a few weeks and to temporarily fix it i had to smack it in the upper left corner to get it to shut up for a few minutes, but it seems to have fixed itself and returned to normal. I know it's most likely the bearings and that it could die on me at any moment especially since this has been the third round of fan troubles spread over the course of two and a half years since I've gotten it, but I genuinely believe it'll last me until I graduate, which isn't for another two years.
I work in graphic design and it's served me well in spite of its limited resolution, so the only reason i would abandon the machine is if i wanted something with a better screen. the nipple is surprisingly great for graphic design work since it's more precise than a trackpad and you don't have to lift your fingers whatsoever to drag an element across the screen, and you have full keyboard access for shortcuts while you're dragging stuff around. it's going to be hard to find another machine that lives up to the standards my x220 set, especially since this bad boy is hackintoshed and i feel like i've gotten accustomed to all of its intricacies.