Not sure how you'd expect to get any useful data on two years and a sample size that small.
Ah, politics, keeping social advancement in the dumpster since two people with clubs started arguing over which side of the river was "theirs".
Or maybe basic income doesn't work as it should, despite us really wanting it to
Quite an assumption to make. How could you judge it after only two years and 2,000 people?
Same assumption that makes you say it works, just needs a larger sample size.
I'm not even against it or anything
Where did I say it works?
I mean it says so in the article
The initial plan was for the experiment to be expanded in early 2018 to include workers as well as non-workers early in 2018, but that did not happen – to the disappointment of researchers at Kela. Without workers in the project, researchers are unable to study whether basic income would allow people to make new career moves, or enter training or education.
”Two years is too short a timeframe to be able to draw extensive conclusions from such a vast experiment. We ought to have been given additional time and more money to achieve reliable results,” professor Olli Kangas, one of the experts behind the basic-income trial, told Finland’s public-service broadcaster YLE.
considering this experiment only used people who were unemployed at its start, and the sample size so small and time so short, there wont be much data or conclusions to get from this.
It has absolutely nothing to do with communism or, "Comintern". I've absolutely no idea how you managed to make such a weird connection. One of the professors, an expert on the trial they were conducting actually said they needed the expansion to it (which was already planned to occur), to research workers and so to draw a conclusion as to whether there would be differences between them and non-workers.
Jesus Christ.
It feels like there are at least a few people here who just plain haven't read the article...
Once again something is ruined because our current government decides to ditch it for short term gains. No wonder we are heading to shitter. No investment in research.
Well, considering how few actual experiments take place in economics, it's sad to see this one go. I'm not a huge believer in UBI (at least I don't think it could stand alone), but not seeing where this goes seems like short sighted.
I don't really think UBI is a good idea (at our current productivity) but damn is this really what you think is a good argument?
Also there have been a few other experiments before and they never really yielded horrible results.
Implementing UBI in the current state of production isn't the state of UBI. The point is to keep people alive in a world driven by automation
who the living fuck voted those crooks in after Katainen's fuck ups, anyway? clearly having the National Coalition clearly wasn't enough, we just had to throw the centrist turncoats and the hard righters in there too - are we really this damn stupid?
they're actively doing their best to defund education and dismantle the healthcare system, and where is the opposition?
Eh, there are parties and politicians you can find actively pushing for it nowadays.
But yeah pretty much, the further we become productive, the more viable it becomes.
We're pushing for it now so that it's implemented in time for the automated economy. We aren't pushing for it now in order to implement it now.
Are you really so sure that all of these people are so enlightened
I mean that might apply to you, people like musk, etc.. but what about the various green parties, linke, etc.?
Finnish government is very American at the moment, trying to privatize healthcare and transportation, selling natural reserves to foreign megacompanies, etc. Lots of right and centre-right in power. Current politics resulting in the scrapping universal income is not surprising at all, because fuck those poor they should just bootstrap themselves up or get a job!
Couldn't tell you. I'm not familiar with Finnish politics. You may be right.
It could totally work if manufacturing hubs bought robots out the wazoo instead of just 2 and the factory floors were well designed and thought out. I'm looking at you mom and pop fabrication shops! UBI and Automation are hand in hand and you can't really have one without the other.
Why is there always someone like you who has to go "hur hur 'not real communism' amirite guise" the second anything left of fucking Mussolini is mentioned?
I use to be really gung-ho about any move towards basic income, but now I'm cautious of most initiatives unless there is also an accompanying attempt to actually redistribute wealth along with a basic income - otherwise you just end up with people being dependent on the wealthiest to not only supply them, but to provide them with additional income.
Finland probably wouldn't need UBI yet if we kicked out all the right-wing politicians out of the country and fixed our existing social security systems.
An unemployed person that tries to start a business and fails, right now, is basically condemned to death.
An unemployed person that gets a job, but doesn't get enough work, is fucked.
Will be interesting to see if "hurr muslim immigrants" will continue to work in the elections next year.
Fucksake, I move out of Britain before it starts going further and further into defunding and privatization, just to end up in a country starting the exact same thing. This particular thing is minor compared to the shit they're trying to pull. Fucking aktiivimalli
I agree that perhaps there should have been a longer and more expansive test period, but honestly, our society is currently not in such a state that UBI would be feasible in anyway.
And as usual, as soon as the wind starts to pick up we have people point at the Centrist party and baaw about alt-right and americanization.
Just curious, what would be a good country to have this experiment? What is it about Finland that makes it bad for this experiment?
And you're making this assumption based off what?
This is just coming off as you not looking up what the deal here is. Point was to study whether basic income would allow people to make new career moves, get trained or better educated more effectively than just what your typical unemployement benefit would allow. Studying workers and non-workers seperately allows to see if there's some differences in effect between the groups, it's not rocket science. For example, no official findings were yet concluded because the experiment wasn't complete, but the early findings indicated lower stress levels at early levels amongst some participants.
"Enlightened"? That's a pretty big word to use, unless you give your reasoning and concrete evidence as to why it really can't be implemented currently. Otherwise it's just an opinion and saying those who share it are enlightened comes off as self-imbued.
With more and more automation/outsourcing coming in, not only will it work better and better as time continues, it'll have to work
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