• Wierd FP staff behavior(not an appeal, ban lifted, but the situation questioned)
    16 replies, posted
Intro: Here is "WTF is going on" story for your amusement, regarding today's events on EU1. So, here I am https://steamcommunity.com/id/GarmZandor main account, tons of money invested, bought rust, bought skins, abiding rules, reporting cheaters via F7 - some got banned by my team reports exclusively, lately nerding 24/7, top 4 Most Time Played on EU1, mostly building / farming / sorting loot Prologue rant: So, i do have time to play EvE Online until next wipe, I guess - seems that situation with Alistair issuing single server ban to me for, supposedly, profiting from someone else, not even in my team or being one of my allies, playing with cheats, was not resolved via private and public channels in any reasonable way - ban was silently removed, without notification, but all the endgame progress (clan base with rockets, aks and stuff) - vanished, because I'm the builder and de-facto owner of every building in our team. So, the game on the official server of choice, for my crew, de-facto is unplayable until wipe. As the result - we cannot reap the result of our progress and participate in wipe cycle endgame and our future wipe cycle progress is heavily impaired as well. Since I'm being ignored by Alistair after his actions and following inadequate his and facepunch discord community team copy/paste inadequate comments about zero tolerance of cheating, which do not apply to me in any way, since i'm the bystander, not the offender or even related to guilty party. Due to inability of present at that moment facepunch team, to resolve the issue in any way, except going authoritative and in complete denial. Since personally i'm not cheating, my team was not cheating, people who are in my friend list, as I know, were not cheating and I never knowingly interacted with a cheater in any way. And unknowing interaction, that they banned me for, and removed my and my team progress - lasted only few minutes and supposed "profit" was ridiculous. Short story would be - some random guys, whom I met just today, who turns out had a cheater in their team, contacted me via proxy via my teammate and were going to do major trade deal with me - got rid of 2 nakeds stone 2x2 near my new base using my explosive ammo, so I wouldn't be bothered while building my stuff nearby, so I can finally deal with them. And I got my house removed, because someone of them had cheats while shooting that 2 doors. Full story later... The reason why I tolerated late cheater report response and constant ddos / downtimes on official servers, was the hope that the intended gameplay will not be affected by any means by administration or developers and their relations by other players. And what happened - devs personal involvement and actions, as I understood, on other players personal request via steam friend list, caused unrepairable collateral damage to random players in actions area. And which, instead of finding a reasonable solution, he lazily tries to cover up with false accusations, which can be easily disproven, and implying some sort of my guilt of faint contact with cheater and profiting from it through 3rd party, which, unlike a bubonic plague, which also spread on contact, cannot be proven. This is completely unprofessional and just fu**ed up from ethics and logic side, and it pisses me off more than losing 200+ hours of progress - that i'm accused in something in game I payed for and which played strictly by the rules, no matter how vague they are defined. Acting persons: Alistair and prob someone else, me, my teammate, my teammates contact who acted as proxy for the deal (will be named as proxy furthermore), some crew 3-4 people armed with AKs and/or some mid-end game weapons (didn't check nicknames), which proxy is probably part of or familiar with, who are buying the rockets, 2 nakeds from 2x2 near my new base, my neighbor clan (irrelevant) The actual story: So, today, My teammate was contacted by a guy with whom we roamed once few days ago - cleaned military tunnels once and did some some farming in the area for a few hours at late night, who wanted act as a proxy to purchase 35 rockets from us for scrap and armored doors, with purpose of raiding someone in the area. He was quite generous to leave his gear and all gains for few hours of farm to us before, so why not. We agreed on the price, called proxy via discord, in joint call with my teammate, and soon proxy with the crew arrived to nearby area and started roaming around, preparing storage for the rockets, or raid house, I guess. I was inside my base, sorting loot in drop boxes, waiting to close the deal, not leaving my autoturret range, since there was some major pvp going on outside. I was asked by proxy to safe keep in my base yard around 10 stacks of sulfur ore (preferably to smelt it in my big furnace) and few pieces of gear and lend them some consumables, while they are preparing place to move rockets, for which purpose I disabled my turrets for a minute, while they dropped something in box near my gates, after they left - turrets were active again. Small favor for someone with whom i'm preparing quite a significant trade deal for me? Why not? My teammate retrieved some loot from our neighbor's clan corpse (ak and hqm set), who is friendly to us was involved in pvp somewhere outside of our base, so I carried it to their base and returned it. When pvp activity in the area tuned down, I and my teammate moved out to nearby sector to build new storage base. Eventually, my teammate left and I was inside that base fortifying it or carrying resources to it from the home base all the time. While I was inside, my building twigs were attacked by some naked bowman, who was killed by me. Then I was threatened with raid by 2 nakeds, whom I just ignored. Eventually, proxy and crew were coming back to the area where I was building, I told proxy my current location, and shortly he responded that nakeds are door camping me with bows or something. Crew killed them while I was inside, proxy told me that nakeds are coming from stone 2x2 nearby, so I offered them stack of explosive ammo, to get rid of them. So, I gave them stack of explosive ammo, crew destroyed 2 metal doors and left raided 2x2 to me, asking me to repair their damaged AKs - I smelted some retrieved hqm ore in 2x2 and when was returning to repair bench to fix second AK I was banned from the server. While figuring out what and how it happened, I asked proxy if he or the crew can loot my body and do a stash or something, since it had some resources (stone, smg body, some garbage and a bit of components) and my teammates are offline. As I understood, proxy received ban as well, but he told that someone from the crew checked my body and it was looted, and someone immediately preparing raid of my main base. It turned out that raid house was the remains of my loot room, since it was made in some 2x2 I took over at wipe start, but the remainder of base was gone and they thought that my neighbor base was mine. And that's the story, folks. So the last rant... Am I reasonable? I hope, so... Is there anything implying that what I am accused for is truth? Ignoring the fact of how brief interaction was, what actual "profit" was, and it happened unknowingly, since I saw crew for the first time in my life, never engaged with them in pvp against others and against them, never raided with them, where they could tell where cupboard or lootroom is right away, so I could somehow confirm that someone of them have cheats - technically, yes. But by the same faulty logics, I can be accused in assault, if I lend a lighter to a random smoker on a street, who used it to burn someones hair right away. Is there anything implying me breaking ANY rules vaguely defined in Terms Of Service? Well, if you stretch "Do anything we or you might consider naughty or illegal" to "Your face is naughty. We can pwn anyone we want with AoE banhammer without definitive confirmation/proof of fault, proper process and thinking of consequences..." - technically, also yes. But, seriously - banning a cheater? Kudos. Godspeed to you. Banning everyone who lives with him and profits from having him in raids and roams? Long awaited behavior on official servers, since big clans usually have dedicated cheater - all for it. But WTF or people who just met them have to do with it? Every my statement and general timeline can be verified by logs, if logging is as sophisticated as Facepunch claim it to be. I worked in game dev for a few years, generally in software development for more than a decade, and hopefully I'm not a moron - I'm not asking for morally righteous but impossible or unacceptable solutions, like involving rolling back to earlier server state snapshots if you do those, or asking to spawn my stuff back - but there should be a compromise. Silently lifting a false ban, but politely telling me to "f*** off" by publicly making false accusations and blocking me off, when I'm looking to negotiate reasonable and easy for both sides solution, to partially mitigate damage caused to me and few more players by direct dev intervention in game process without any proper process, on behalf of other players request in competitive pvp game. And lastly, the fact that, dev "friends" in steam receive explanations and details of my ban, while accused party is ignored during this abnormal situation is astounishing. I'm not playing alone and my team's progress pace maintenance is my responsibility, so I'm still open for compromise.
Can relate just EAC is the problem for me and its not lifted after 30 days of trying. Still going tho and trying to get that lifted.
Not related to the topic. I'm not banned, or at least anymore - the problem is that all my team's stuff was removed and/or allowed to be looted by someone. And i'm figuring out, how comes that bystander, not guilty in breaking ToS was basically raided by temp banhammer, most likely in favor of person who started this, who, as I understand, was in private contact with ban issuer, and if all this was intentional. I don't mind if devs are banning cheaters in teams of personal enemies of their friends, tho it is discriminatory. I was not part of it in any way. But generally, I don't like the attitude and reaction I received.
You got the short end of the stick when dealing with a Cheater. Servers wipe in a 2 weeks. Get over it.
I wasn't dealing with a cheater. Do you people even read stuff? They are not in my team, they are not my allies, they aren't even my neighbours, they aren't my friends in steam or irl - I don't know them and know nothing about them. All my interactions with them were legit and listed down. It feels like Russiagate, but with cheaters in rust - after all the fuss, no guilt found but career ruined already. And why would I and my friends would suck it up and wait 2 weeks for doing nothing wrong and still being targeted? It wasn't a bug or accident - it was personal.
Quaelm-Yesterday at 4:34 PM @Alistair hi, would you contact me please, you wrongfully banned me on EU1 and removed ban, right now as understand, but there are some issues left unresolved Tlean-Yesterday at 4:35 PM KICKED, read #server-guidelines Dont ping FP staff Quaelm-Yesterday at 4:53 PM @Tlean thanks for not issuing ban right away, was not aware of it, but had a damn good reason to do so Tlean-Yesterday at 4:54 PM if ali isnt around you should create a ticked https://support.facepunchstudios.com/hc/en-us orkel-Yesterday at 4:57 PM if you were already unbanned from the server, what's the problem you're having with ali? mistakes happen, you were unbanned, should be fine with that Quaelm-Yesterday at 4:58 PM yes, but this ban removed all my buildings and all my progress and i'm the clan builders 4 people progress just vanished orkel-Yesterday at 5:00 PM although there's probably not much that can be done regarding the buildings, i'd recommend posting a thread on the Rust forums, the Rust reddit, or waiting for him to reply here on discord. Ali is not part of the support page, so creating a ticket there is not going to do much (he's just on the forums, reddit, and discord) Quaelm-Yesterday at 5:01 PM situation, as I see it right now, is that developer joined the server and removed innocent's player progress (who spent ridiculouse amount of time on it) in favor of other player - the reason I tolerated ddos and late cheater reports on official servers and did not join community server - when admins can interrupt players progress for unlawful reasons thanks for the info, ill stay in discord waiting then, have 2 weeks until next wipe anyway Alistair-Yesterday at 5:48 PM Quaelm, you were banned and base removed because you were observed playing (trading, raiding, farming) and profiting from a cheater. We take a zero tolerance stance for anyone playing with cheaters. Quaelm-Yesterday at 5:54 PM sure, and there is reasonable explanation for that you could just appear and ask and i can't tell if someone is cheating, when i met them for the first time and spent 2 minutes with them shooting at 2 doors literally probably i was standing near them for few minutes they didn't have access to my doors, my cupboards, my turrets, nothing i had 0 iteraction with them until today, especially the cheater in their crew except person who acted as proxy for trade they did not kill me with tripple headshot at 150m at night, how i can tell Tlean-Yesterday at 6:00 PM ali got u dude Ganryu-Yesterday at 6:01 PM I know it isn't my place to get involved, but zero tolerance means zero tolerance, dude. whether it's an FP employee or someone from some other company, there really isn't any exceptions. innocent or not, you were still profiting from the actions of a cheater, so proper measures were taken to prevent you from having an unfair advantage over others. it might suck, but if you take a minute to think about it, it's actually pretty fair. if it were your game, you wouldn't want someone to have any benefits they earned from other people cheating in your game just because they didn't know, would you? it's just food for thought Quaelm-Yesterday at 6:02 PM wait, i wasn't cheating, i didn't observe any cheats, i wasn't involved in anything except shooting 2 doors with my explosive ammo in stone 2x2 for a minute, they are not playing with me, i dont even know them - and my and my team progress removed for standing near them? Tlean-Yesterday at 6:03 PM if Alistar says you were playing and profiting from hackers then thats the final word dont waste time to say otherwise there is no one here to convince Quaelm-Yesterday at 6:04 PM sorry, first part was a lie and second part was unknowingly and in a very minor way very stretching, that my clan base profits from 10hqm, 1 smg body and stone 2x2 removed from my second base area when i could do it alone, against 2 nakeds and there wasn't even a way to tell that they are hackers in few minute interaction seriously, wth Ganryu-Yesterday at 6:06 PM point still stands, dude. whether you knew it or not, you were caught playing with cheaters, so action was taken. whether you could tell or not doesn't matter; zero tolerance means zero tolerance. Alistair gave their statement on the matter, so trying to appeal it isn't going to help.(edited) Quaelm-Yesterday at 6:07 PM this is ridiculous Ganryu-Yesterday at 6:07 PM not really think of what I said before; if it were your game, you wouldn't want someone to have any benefits they earned from other people cheating in your game just because they didn't know, would you? Quaelm-Yesterday at 6:08 PM i wasn't playing with them, wth. my own base, my own stuff, never met them before, see them for few minutes - i get banned and my teams progress removed Tlean-Yesterday at 6:08 PM zero tolerance ZERO TOLERANCE Quaelm-Yesterday at 6:08 PM sure, im all for it, but im involved here for literally no reason i can name every single iteraction with them, and there are no legit reason whatsoever Tlean-Yesterday at 6:09 PM banned if you want to keep talking to a wall I'll unban him but this is likely a dead end Ganryu-Yesterday at 6:10 PM nah, I'm good. he should've just accepted that zero tolerance means zero tolerance. Seeing as you'd like to neglect the point where Alistar did respond to you, Im just going to leave this here.
Thanks for proving my point, since I can't join that discord server anymore. "Alistair-Yesterday at 5:48 PM Quaelm, you were banned and base removed because you were observed playing (trading, raiding, farming) and profiting from a cheater." And we can go back to reading my post and trying to match things up... So, Zero-tolerance of what exactly? You, my kind sir, are way too defensive, and taking in consideration your moderator position, and multiple attempts to present your opinion as from legit rust player - it doesn't look good.
Welp if you want my take of the issue, and mind you I'm not Dev or have anything to do with rust at all (I just keep the forums clean), what it sounds like to me is you got caught making a trade deal with a group who had a cheater. You basically admitted as much on your second paragraph. So the server admin who happened to be Alistar, who can see what items go where and whose interacting with who being a server admin and all, caught you taking items from a group who cheated and gave you a slap on the wrist temp server ban. So I'll play the devil's advocate and say you had no clue those guys that you met through your proxy were cheating. How many items did you receive? Because at this point it's your flimsy word with no supporting evidence such as pictures or videos vs. a game developmer with admin on the server who can see all interactions via console. At the end of the day you just got a slap on the wrist temp ban on 1 server. Do you think you'd have any grounds on a non-facepunch run server? Any server admin could have just perma'd you for whatever reason, and if Alistar knew it was you hacking you would already have a game ban. At this point all of it's irrelevant, because at the end of the day you got a slap on the wrist temp ban for unknowingly/knowingly interacting with hackers outside of an aggressive confrontation. Zero tolerance means zero tolerance, server rules don't equate to EULA.
Ok, lets play this. I received nothing in my permanent possession from them, I described what was supposed to be traded, and trade was not complete - i did not gave them rockets, i did not get scrap and armored doors. And even I would, how I was supposed to verify that everyone from their crew doesn't have any cheats, especially if I meet them for the first time and there are no even rumors available? There are no logs implying that I traded or interacted with them in any way before - every event was in mentioned in my post. And what do you mean, by flimsy word? Presumption of innocence is obsolete now? We are back to lynch mobs? And don't give me "unknowingly interacting" bs, you don't need jurisprudence to figure out that it would not pass in court. I'm supposed to prove my innocence by videotaping my whole rust experience to prove that I never met that guys, especially when FP can verify my claim, that I indeed did not met them before. But there is one fact, I know for sure - there are no logs proving that i was knowingly involved in any deals with known cheater or even unknowingly before this one. I listed all items that were supposed to be traded and which never happened, items that were dropped in my furnace and dropbox near gate for safekeeping at their request, items that I obtained by sponsoring 2x2 stone house destruction, where no cheating was taking place, at least one I could possibly identify and I can't imaging how cheating would benefit in any way for quad of geared people shooting at the only doors of undefended 2x2. And issue is not just an hour long ban, which was lifted - but my team possessions removed. And yes, I would have grounds on a non-facepunch server, since admins tend to appear personally there to admin punishments ironically, and since i'm not the offender or related to offender in any way at least I would be able to present my case, which could be easily matched with logs. Removing all stuff gained my team of 3 for few weeks for no legit reason is not slap on a wrist. I cannot be blamed if someone random on the street stabs someone with a screwdriver i just sold or lent to him. I cannot be blamed if someone sold stolen car with forged numbers to me, especially if we never met before and it happened once. i have not directly profited from cheater activity in any way - he wasn't using aimbot to kill my enemies on my behalf, or finding loot rooms with wallhack, or selling me gains from raid I was aware of, where cheats were involved. This is logics 101, everything can be verified by logs. Both my and Alistair subjective claims can be verified by other FP staff member, who has access to objective logs and dispute will be resolved. And I'm sure it will be in my favor. Isn't that a reasonable request?
If you're so sure it would have been in your favor then it would have already happened. Did you see in the discord chat that you had more than just Alistair on staff talking to you? Orkel already told you there was pretty much nothing that could be done about the buildings, so regardless of whether it was a mistake on Ali's end or a legit ban on the other you're not going to get your buildings back. Like I said, you got a slap on the wrist ban on 1 server. You're stuff got wipe'd and you're not going to get your buildings back. Your request was already looked into by at least one other staff member. It's over and done with my dude.
Yes, I'm adamant that it should be in my favor and I will do everything so it would happen. Yes I saw other people talking, so: I'm grateful about being pointed to support ticket system. I'm grateful to helpful information community staff was able to provide me, but I was not looking for their opinion. It is their job to act as a buffer between development team and end users. And that applies to you, aswell, my good sir. Nothing personal. I work in this industry. But in this case one of the developers went vigilante on the server to the end users and caused collateral damage. Orkel doesn't really know if something can be done with the building - he did not specifically tell that there are no game state snapshots so server could be rolled back and if rollback is out of the question, but it that is an extreme solution, which is unlikely after all this time lost since the events took place I'm aware that there are too much effort or almost impossible to restore the things as they were, but that is why I was looking for compromise solution Stop using "dev caught you" bs - I was not caught, I did nothing wrong. Presumption of innocence still exists. Collective punishments stretch not so far in modern world and applied only for organized groups, which I was no part of. I don't care whom you believe to. There are subjective claims and there are objective facts which can be verified by 3rd party. Devs are people - they can make mistakes, they can lie. And in the end of the day, I'm software developer myself - that gives me some insight, on what happened and what can be done about it. That is why I'm not sucking it up. If FP is willing to proclaim authoritative nature, cancel even vaguely defined ToS and do whatever they want - they will be in their right, and there will be no other way for me as to move the issue to the Steam to break agreement and get refunded for Rust, I will need official answer tho. There would be nothing I could do - no Rust for me. Especially, when there is possibility of further harassment from administration. And like I said, i'm not sucking it up. There was no wrist ban, because I'm not guilty of anything - it was either mistake or harassment from developer acting as vigilante on the server. You don't burn random people house just because you believe in witchcraft and proclaim yourself a Grand Inquisitor - it doesn't work that way, at least in civilized word. I keep repeating - my stuff was removed for no legit reason, and repeating false talking points will not make faulty logics acceptable. There are thing that could be negotiated and be done to mitigate damage caused.
stop being so sensitive about pixels. you got your ban lifted. What do you want them to erect a castle and load it with AK's and Enough C4 to Snowball some bases? That sure won't go well with other players.
If you live in 2x2, it is not my problem - not everyone shares your candy crush attitude. I just want progress, i and my team invested a lot of time in, back, at least partially. And yea, I had castle with aks, turrets, c4 and rockets - why anyone be against of me getting my own stuff back, which was removed wrongfully?
This is kind of useless seen to as many others lose stuff to hackers, for example every time we got raided it was almost always a hacker but we didnt create tickets. Once the stuff is gone its gone. Its a game at the end of the day and sure maybe you werent playing with a hacker but this is not that important of a reason to make a very long ticket. You could have probably gotten most the stuff back at this point instead of typing.
Problem were not other players actions, but some vigilante dev flying around and removing random people's bases on official server. I'm burned out, we spent a lot of time playing last 2 weeks, to start over - there was ridiculous amount of loot stockpiled already. I'm not playing alone and other people depend on my progress, so I'll keep demanding at least bps I already was going to research that day and had everything prepared for it, to prepare team for the next wipe. Not only we are missing late game now, but progress for the next wipe was stopped.
I don't live in a 2x2, I live in a 1x2. It's that thing you see when you hover over my icon. You play with a group, I'm not going to skim through your Wall of text since it's a pointless rant, and assume you play with 6 other players. who Judging by your claim of having a huge stock pile of raid mats. are probably pretty damn good at taking other player's shit. A Base is easy to build just find a suitable spot. plop one down, and get to work. if your group is worth anything they should be able to pry an ak off some kid.
Fp and RUST, are the same shit as EA BF4 in terms of cheating. If they see you being pro, or having a lot of resources, they ban you. They dont want good players aiming, even pro farmers. They want all people in 2x2 without armored doors or garage doors. What they want are easy bases to raid, newby players defending, and not a whit of resistence. So funny how trade with a supposed cheater, makes you attempt to get a ban. How should be the game works them hu? Tell me gods devs, how should we know whos cheating to avoid him? So funny how what they created to avoid cheaters, is turning against them.
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