i know time is valuable, so, ill get right to the point and break it down as best i can. this is going to be a mouthful. a large part of my enjoyment of rust comes from how the gunplay functions, its very what id call, pseudo-realistic, ie, pretty realistic and believable, but still fake enough to be a balanced game, so things like recoil and projectile speed and drop off and such may be altered some. thats not what im here for, what im most interested in is the attachments, more specifically the silencer, or suppressor. so, one of my biggest complaints with games is how im yet to play a game that gets suppressors right, and i think rust has the opportunity to not only get them realistic, but also be still fun and well balanced. most games make unrealistic sacrifices because they have to for game balance, which i understand, but in your case, i dont think this is needed, and i’ll explain why.
part one. how it works:
so, in rust, suppressors work so that they reduce sound and recoil at the significant cost of damage and velocity, making it just impractical, but in real life, a silencer will boost velocity slightly, increasing damage and range and increases the cycle rate of gas operated weapons, like an ak47. now, i know at first it sounds crazy overpowered and how would you balance it, but here, i propose a solution. there are some significant problems which come with silencers that could i believe, be implemented with minimal effort, and make gunplay and stealth all the more rich.
part two. how it could work, a three part process.
section one, recoil:
so, with recoil changes. a silencer does decrease recoil, pretty significantly in fact, which i think is great that was at least partially modeled, but ill still describe it here. a suppressor decreases recoil in two ways, by the added mass, and by reducing the sort of “rocket engine” effect of gas shooting out the end of the barrel by absorbing and cooling the gas inside the silencer body. the numbers are around, 15% recoil reduction for pistols, and nearly 30-35% for high caliber rifles, but you can stick with a number being the same for all for simplicity, but, this has already been implemented so i wont stay on the topic of recoil too long, but it does go into the second part.
section two, rate of fire:
so, heres where some interesting balancing options come in. a silencer increases the cycle rate of semi automatic guns by increasing the internal pressure of the weapon, so something like an ak operating off a gas system could see an increase in rate of fire similar to what the muzzle boost would do in the game now, but theres a cost, its been seen in real life that that increase in violence on the weapon rapidly degrades the gun, so i propose, when using a silencer, the gun its attached to as well as the silencer itself is damaged more and more per shot, at the benefit of a higher rate of fire and quieter shooting.
section three, subsonic ammo and tracers:
so the last main balancing thing. silencers are not very effective with supersonic ammo, because the bullet itself causes a sonic “crack” as it flies through the air, very loudly. so i propose implementing, along with (HV) high velocity ammo, (LV) low velocity ammo, which would be quieter to shoot, and when coupled with a silencer, very very quiet and barely sound like a gun at all, confusing people on not only where the shooting is coming from, but if its even a gun at all. i think if you fire a gun normally with standard ammo and a silencer, it should be quite loud, but still an improvement over nothing, but still retain its tracer, but if you use low velocity ammo with a silencer, you get the pure stealth experience. the low velocity ammo would have a lower armor penetration but still just as high base damage, if not slightly more, like youre getting hit by a brick, due to the physical bullet being heavier, which is whats often done irl to compensate for the subsonic bullet.
so in summary, if i would re-design the silencer, i would make it have a minor increase of velocity and damage, about 5-10%, a decrease in recoil by about 20-25%, and the fire rate is increased, but it damages the weapon faster. the silemcer alone would not remove the bullet tracers but would decrease sound somewhat, making it slightly quieter and less of a cracking noise, until coupled with low velocity ammo, which would have a small increase in base damage, maybe 5%, but lower armor penetration, not sure maybe around 5%. the low velocity ammo would have no tracers and be slightly quieter, regardless of if used with a silencer or not.
oh, and if you put the silencer on a weapon that uses a gas cycling system like an ak or semi rifle etc, it would increase rate of fire, but not on things like p2 pistols and revolvers, since they operate off of recoil cycling or other, however im not sure if thats possible to distinguish im rust, it might treat all guns as the same, not sure so yea, i mention that separately.
so, what would you guys think of these tweaks? do you think it would make the silencers actually usable now, would you use them more? what do you think of the idea of harder hittig but lower penetration stealthy low velocity ammo? please, id love to see some conversation on this and make it happen, i want to see a game finally get suppressors right. thanks for reading if you got this far <3
I'd agree if the silencer where harder to get, but it just seems too OP. And btw, I think people despise HV ammo, because with the math done their damage is significantly decreased? So most people only use normal ammo. But I do agree the weapon attachments are a bit fucked up.
You have some good thoughts here but you can't compare weapons and attachments in rust to weapons and attachments in real life.
The silencer (as it is in game right now) is mostly used for silent explosive bullet raiding, which in my opinion is the only good reason to use it (unless you are desperately wanting to play like a stealthy ninja).
On your idea on lower penetration ammo (is this ammo for rifle, pistol or shotgun???), I dont see any good usage of it unless the silencer get changed to only be silent with the LV ammo. (this ruins silent explosive raiding tho).
As it is now there is (almost) nobody that makes other ammo then regular pistol bullets and rifle-556 (and explosive bullets for raiding), so adding another type of ammo when incendiary for rifle and pistol and HV for rifle and pistol is almost not used and crafted at all, it should not be a thing the rust devs need to focus on right now. (should focus on hackers and farming 3.0 )
i agree that those other problems should be priority, but if you look at what theyve done in the past, when has "too many ideas" stopped them?
all the numbers i proposed are all just back of the envelope numbers, things could be tweaked to be less and or more for balance, but my point is i think the options are there to make the silencer as cool and effective as it deserves. right now, no one seems to use it for actual combat because the drop off and damage sucks ass, and thats sad. i would agree with making it harder to get, due to these changes and to how finely machined the inside of a silencer is, it should be harder to get and make, workbench 2 or maybe even three? but it would make a hell of a cool addition, and people would actually use it for what its meant for i think finally. or find some other weird exploit cx
I love how he says ill get straight to the point and then writes a massive paragraph
Silenced combat is for nerds. Replace all guns with small artillery pieces because fuck everyone in a 30 mile radius who enjoys their hearing.
the way i meant that is, this is a complex topic so ill make it as short as i can. now do you have any constructive criticism?
I'm okay with the damage trade-off, but the loss in velocity sucks.
well, in guns thats kinda necessary, because two things determine damage, the bullet mass/size, and velocity. so by decreasing damage you need to decrease velocity. and like i said, this game is at least trying to be half realistic
In real life, suppressors can actually slightly increase velocity. But they should never, ever decrease muzzle velocity if used correctly.
I agree the silencer could be improved to be used more in combat, for example it would be nice to use it if you for example want to silent counter-raid etc. But to be able to use it in combat it need to be buffed a bit because of what it is now:
Damage -25%
Aimcone -30%
Hip Aimcone -30%
Velocity -25%
Recoil -20%
Aim Sway -20%
I also agree that it would be to op if it stays as a 5 HQM cost you can be able to craft at a workbench1, but workbench level 3 would be to push it a bit much so a workbench level 2 item for for example 15-20 HQM could, for example, be a decent balance.
As it is now you have a 1% chance to get it in crates 15% from heli crates and 13% from supply signal, so its already quite "rare" to find (numbers from Rustlabs), so make it even harder to get, would make it almost impossible to find. Also what you think the scrap cost would be for the new silencer? from 75 to 250 should be good if you ask me.
if you want good silencers do this:
muzzle flash reduced
reduce velocity
reduce recoil by 5%
dont make it completely compress sound because that's not how a silencer works.
that's all
WRONG! Suppressors reduce gas in the chamber causing less velocity! This is how the Sound barrier is lessened, furthermore if you want realistic, if you fired FULL AUTO through a suppressor it would overheat and warp the barrel or melt internally.
How do people come up with these ridiculous facts? I think you' read some fake news!
so they need to buff (stats) on the silencers... make them more valuable (more costly), maybe make them more rare by making it a t3 item?
And reduce durability?
Kind of a heavy (price/rarity) nerf, but that should get rid of the negative attributes on the silencers, so that way they only give "buffs" the the weapon where they are attached to, albeit at a pretty high cost?
yes/no?
Clearly everyone wants to pretend they're part of an artillery crew
Also, @captainrussia its a meme ya dip.
ill be honest..i have no idea what youre talking about, no documentation provided or that ive read says anything about silencers decreasing velocity in a weapon when firing, if you read the wiki page on silencers, it says it explicitly there and from common sense youll understand the opposite of what you describe happens, the expanding gas from the gun barrel is contained, meaning theres no where for it to go as fast, think of it like you punch a pin size hole in a water bottle vs cutting the bottom off. the baffles in a silencer absorb and dissipate the gas, which decreases sound and more importantly, makes it not sound like a gunshot. this makes it harder for the gas to escape the barrel, causing it to increase in pressure inside the whole gun for a short period, this is why it increases fire rate, its like youre firing a larger powder load.
also stop talking like a conspiracy nut pls thank
what meme are you referring to here? And I wasn't replying to any meme, even if there was one...
I posted 2 videos that show you how a Suppressor works you dolt! Fine REMAIN IGNORANT! just stop trying to change the suppressor to do something it cannot.
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