I've been pondering and researching on non-linear world designs for months now, but there's this one question I can't answer.
Is not having a map ever a good idea?
There are many, many implementations to allow non-linear worlds to be navigable without ever needing to read a map.
The map can be made hidden, optional, earned, vague. Diving into an unknown with minimal navigation aid can be daunting; exciting, and getting out: relieved.
But I could only fathom that a complete absence of a readable map only leads to frustration, and sometimes, elitism.
Would the souls series benefited by having some form of in-game map? At a cost? Perhaps at the expense of fast travel?
I'd definitely enjoy a Silent Hill style map that unravels as you play through the game, even if in good old Dark Souls fashion it's an item you have to find somewhere.
Having your character etch out a loose map of the areas that slowly improves over time and expands as you find new places would be a cool side features that would make bonfire warping a hell of a lot more elegant than a list or a grid.
In a game like Dark Souls I think the map should be very basic. Showing the relative position of locations to each other but not the exact route to take. Like you could have a map where the aqueduct is drawn between a representation of Firelink Shrine and Undead Burg, but not the paths of the Burg itself.
If a game has good enough set pieces and concise enough design even for something you'll be backtracking around in a lot or so forth, then a map isn't necessary, just a helpful aid and convenience. For Dark Souls in particular though, while a map would be nice to pull up, I really feel like it'd be a detriment to something DS1, which encourages you to basically carve your own path through improbable routes or corner dives onto platforms below that you may not notice if you're just running about willy-nilly.
I never felt as though I needed a map, even in my first playthrough of the original Dark Souls.
Most of the levels were unique and simple/intuitively designed so that you could remember what went where and lead to what with ease.
I think not having a way to know what was around the next corner for the most part besides simply viewing it from afar beforehand added a lot to the experience.
One of the things that really grabbed me in Dark Souls was the sense of exploration, which could give me both a sense of wonder and dread. I do disagree however with his opinion of not having fast travel at all in the game. You get it when you've explored 70-80% of the map, and I think it's a good incentive to re-explore the places you've been. Sure, there are a lot of shortcuts, but I've probably lost hours and hours of my life going to and from Blighttown and I would rather not doing that again on an even larger scale.
I would almost be inclined to ask the opposite question. I feel that if it's possible for the player to find their way without a map, then putting in a map can be detrimental because it just feels better to know that you figured it out yourself. In Dark Souls, I think vantage points in general serve the purpose of maps, because you can actually look out and see how things fit together, and see where you came from. I remember being shocked when I realized that the Hellfire Drake bridge actually reaches back towards Firelink, next to the aqueduct, and I continue to be amazed at 3D models of the world such as the one that mapped messages and bloodstains. If there were to be a map, I'd point to Hollow Knight as a great example of how to do it. By default you aren't given a map, but you can buy a rudimentary map for the area you're currently in by buying it from an NPC, and you can then fill it in yourself by exploring if you've also bought the quill. To me it was interesting to note that even though Hollow Knight is 2D, I had a much harder time finding my way around without a map than I had in Dark Souls (and other 3D games), so I definitely was glad to have a map in that game.
I read a study recently that stated with some statistical confidence after 80 hours of playing an open world game, one with a mini-map and quest markers, and one without, the players of the mini-map one saw some hippo-campus shrinkage, while the other players had their hippo-campus actually grow.
The amount of modern games (indie and AAA) I played that feature non-linear, interconnected worlds AND deliberately not having a readable map is so few I had trouble remembering them. They must be such a chore to design around I figured that most of them simply don't want to deal with the possible frustration of play-testers dealing with complex spatial memory. In my opinion, having a map is much like the curb cut effect, in that everybody can benefit from it. I've seen and know many design methods to make even open worlds possible to navigate with at most a compass: signs, descriptions, vantages, landmarks, visual nudges, and so on. Yet, so little developers choose to take the risk, is it just not worth the trouble? Or is it just an illusion /denial thinking that a map would've been detrimental? Games are generally moving away from minimaps, but not maps entirely.
Map, as a system working together with level design, is barely explored. Hollow Knight, as given as an example, is masterful. Other honorable mentions that immediately come to mind are Firewatch and Darkwood. Follow the marker is an outdated design, I myself am exploring some really, really interesting concepts and am eager to try them out. But, my initially question was still whether the decision to omit the map entirely a better decision than having it in some form.
bringing up hollow knight is not a fair comparison because unlike dark souls where you can direct the camera and visually see how the level is laid out as well as landmarks and subtle environmental queues, you can only view as much as the world can fit on your screen around your character
This is also how the first Megaman Legends was like, by the half way point you could travel through the underground and end up on opposite ends of the map.
I'm not gonna lie, I was definitely disappointed upon finding the cartographer in DS2, only to learn that his sole purpose is to hang out in a basement and give you his armour once you reach endgame. It would've been great being able to describe your travels to him and having him chart up basic maps for you
I still think my favorite experience in Dark Souls was breaking my upgraded weapon when I was halfway through blighttown and not being able to repair it because I didn't buy the repair box, because I didn't realize how important it was to repair stuff in the game.
I decided to press on with whatever stuff I had on hand because the journey back was so long, and I managed to find the shortcut to firelink and get my shit fixed.
That can't happen in the newer games, unless you deliberately kill your blacksmith or something. The small level of commitment that comes from needing to walk places makes it feel more like a journey than a series of levels.
There's nothing wrong with a game being more difficult than everyone can handle. It's not elitism, it's just niche. And no, Dark Souls shouldn't have a map, otherwise I'd have no incentive to go off the beaten path or to look around every corner. It'd be a crutch like fast travel is in the sequels. The only thing I could suggest is slightly better direction in certain areas of the game, primarily with getting to the lower undead burg which I got around by going into Blighttown backwards, but besides that everything else is pretty solid.
I sometimes feel like I zone out playing games with minimaps/objective markers, making me rely on them more cause I don't even remember all the places I've been. For certain games like Prey, I have to turn markers off. It makes me wonder if maps/markers has an influence on directing players through level design
Dark Souls hits all the right marks for not needing a map, it's just complete exploration which really plays into it's difficulty. It's hard to forget where you've been with the variety in the environments, landmarks and all the backtracking. The shortcuts you open up also really pull it all together. I haven't played Dark Souls 1 in a few years but I could probably draw a fairly accurate map
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