No ur just evil, the uneducated mass of people storming hospitals said so.
Fucking deadbeat dads.
Kid has a degenerative brain disorder, and is in a vegetative state. There's nothing that can be done here apart from letting them die peacefully; Shame that the parents don't seem to understand that and are under some delusion their kid is going to get better.
Because they have figures like the Pope giving them false hope - that, mixed with denial and ignorance is a dangerous concoction. It goes a long way in explaining why some people are fucking stupid enough to think storming the hospital is a good idea. I sympathise with the parents - I imagine letting go when your son isn't "dead" is incredibly tough, but this ignorant mass and constant false hope is making this whole thing a pointless national drama, and makes it harder for the parents to come to terms with.
I don't understand the people storming the hospital. What are they going to achieve by running in and chinning a doctor?
Many of these people aren't exactly the finest minds out there.
I know this isn't the most analogous of situations, but this reminded me of a small part of a mash episode.
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/215/c08ff7a4-0c58-4e05-a44e-ecfaaa4dc99f/2018-04-26_13-23-27.mp4
Im curious on why they don't just let the Italian taxpayers pay for this.
Because sending him to Italy would be expensive and dangerous and if he survives the journey it would only be to continue receiving palliative care. From a medical point of view it would be best to keep him comfortable until death, not fling him into an air ambulance and fly him across Europe.
Thats fair, if he isnt really concious he isnt in pain, I guess its just more upsetting than cruel
...so? They want to transport their kid and somehow the amount of time/money they dedicated towards him give them justification to keep him? He's already dead, it isnt like anyone cares about low sentience beings anyway, why not give the parents what they want?
Italy seems willing to do the transportation as well, however.
And yeah, it's not going to do the kid much good, but given his mental state I don't exactly think comfort in this regard is exactly relevant anymore.
Because from the point of the view of the medical staff that have been looking after him for 2 years they cannot allow him to be moved when the only reason is delaying death, they aren't moving him for him to receive treatment or undergo tests, they're just moving him to hook him up to more life support.
It doesn't matter if the Italians say its ok, its not their decision to make. Children die, its tragic but its a fact. And just because you'd turned the death of your child into some international media sensation does not give you the right to prolong their death.
If his parent's gave a shit they'd accept that there's nothing else that can be done, and spend what little time they have left with him at their home.
Why, necessarily, do the doctors get to make this decision if other doctors are willing to provide care?
Also I wouldn't say the parents don't give a shit. They're delusional, but they're falling into very common fallacies. We can say all we want in our comfortable state of mind, but we aren't a couple caught in a very shitty, stressful situation as parents.
Your kid was dead before it was taken off of life support. Sorry.
Just because a doctor in another country says they're willing to provide care doesn't mean they can just take over, medical care doesn't work like that. To undergo something as dangerous as moving a terminally ill child that cannot survive without machinery would need to be seen as beneficial to the patient and you would need to prove that in court if you disagree with your doctors.
They have gone to every court in the UK and received the same answer every time that simply delaying death without even the hope of diagnosis or treatment is not beneficial to the patient that they must be allowed to die with dignity and comfort.
I don't understand why they blocked the parents from taking the child to another country, though.
They can definitely give him comfort while transporting him, seems to me like moving him would be the most likely way for him to finally pass, if anything. If that's what the parents want the doctors really shouldn't be able to just force the kid to stay, hell, they should be able to take their kid out against the doctor's will anyway, what kinda bullshit is this?
Not sure what you mean by "beneficial" if the other plan is to pull the kid off of life support.
And what is the meaning of dignity and comfort?
The kid sounds like he's essentially dead already, and is largely functioning just on automatic behaviors. The self is not there to have dignity or comfort.
Also this is just me being American but IIRC generally here you are allowed to keep being treated if doctors are willing to take your money and whomever makes your medical decisions desires it, though they will recommend you not blow your money.
You can spin that around and ask what the point is in moving a dead child to another country to keep the body alive a little longer. The courts are intended to take an impartial view of this and they have sided with the doctors. Moving him accomplishes nothing for parents or child and as sad as it is he must be allowed to die. Were these rules not in place you'd have wards full of braindead patients hooked up to permanent life support.
But the parents want it because it's their home? Maybe it's valuable, on its own, as a parent, to have your final wishes for your child's life be in your hand?
I don't think I really trust UK courts, to be honest.
I doubt the parents could move him to private medical care seeing as no one would probably accept him and to do so means you've got 200 protesters ready to burn your clinic down the second he dies.
The NHS doesn't necessarily have to be obligated to provide this, and not all patients will go for it.
I do agree that the child should have its life support taken off, but I don't really see why it's a decision that should be taken away from this family.
The point is that the parents want to do it and the alternative is the kid being truly dead. It's not the job of the courts to rule that the kid has to die, it's their job to rule that it no longer makes economic sense to keep him on life support. Saying "Your child will be taken off of life support and we won't allow him to be taken to somewhere else where he is no longer our burden" is kind of ridiculous. If he was suffering that'd be one thing, but he's not.
I don't really have time to explain this system to three americans so I'll keep it brief.
Just because you're the kids parents doesn't mean you get to decide what's done with him. If you disagree with your doctors you go to court and convince them that you know better that medical professionals. If you lose, well that's too bad. Go and spend time with your dying child.
Which to you will probably sound awful and totalitarian, seems like a system that makes sense to me but hey what do I know. Lets fly him out to Italy and the parent's can get weekly updates on how many of his organs failed the night before.
Oof, what an opener. You realize how condescending that makes you come across, right?
You say "if you know better than medical professionals". Better than them about what? You're certainly not talking about the best decision for the child's health, as the current plan is to let it die. If you mean "best" in terms of what's morally best, then yeah, the doctors truly shouldn't have a say... because that's literally not their job, at all. A medical professional does not immediately become a qualified expert in moral philosophy.
Nobody is like, attacking you here, but you're responding as if you were. It doesn't seem totalitarian to me, but to me it makes literally 0 sense that a government should be able to blockade somebody seeking treatment outside of their borders. This has much less to do with this individual case and much more to do with the fact that the doctors can simultaneously say "You are being taken off of life support, also you can't leave" as a legally binding concept at all.
This is cute because the US medical system would have either totally bankrupted the parents several times over by this point, or just given up on the child and refused to keep his care running because looking after people in a vegetative state isn't a massive money maker due to the equipment and staffing required no doubt.
Fuck for profit healthcare systems so much.
if italy is willing to pay for it and take him in then i see absolutely no reason why the courts should block this
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