(Errant Signal) Far Cry 5 and the Art of Saying Nothing - General

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EPqF_o4mCs

While the whole "far cry 5 doesn't say much" angle has been explored plenty already, Errant Signal (like always) hits a lot of these points home in this video. One thing he highlighted when talking about how safe FC5 plays with it's mechanics is the fire system, and I have to agree completely with him. A revolutionary tech introduced in FC2 with a thematic pull to it, is subsequently reused as a staple mechanic until it becomes nothing more than a mechanical flare the player himself has to opt into. Getting rid of fire propagation technology that is that good wouldn't make any sense, sure, but it's inclusion as a side mechanic that just sort of 'sits there' goes a long way to show the difference between the ideals and goals in developing FC2, and those developing FC5.

Captures my issue with the game perfectly. Far Cry 5 just felt to me like a game that has close to no heart, no guts, no bravery. All of which became ten times more noticeable considering the setting they chose. It's also why it's probably one of the least enjoyable games I have ever played despite it not being "bad" from a gameplay perspective. I just felt bad playing it because of how much of a nothing it amounts to. And for the record, I'm not talking about politics. It's the game itself, with its half-baked player empowerment systems, with its sandbox fuck around feeling as opposed to the realer open world feeling of Far Cry 2.

Pushing for themes and allegories through gameplay is increasingly uncommon because they are less documented and harder to identify compared to fun (empowering) mechanic and systems that players can clearly show affection and being in flow, especially concerning those that had to compromise 'fun' to make a point that can be easily mistaken for the designer being pretentious or stubborn. Easy to point and laugh at people who justify defending 'bad design', "it is just a game" and we continue to pretend game and story being two separate pieces loosely tied together. Game directors need to be steadfast and try their best not waver their vision due to pressure from all sides. When I finished FC5, I had no lingering emotion, save for maybe 15 minutes of annoyance on how the ending and message are executed. It was fun while it lasted.

The problem with Far Cry 5's story is that for people who have legitimately no clue about new-age religions and how the Militia Movement came to be, you are left in the dark with only vague understandings of shit and left to say arbitrary crap like, "WACO!" Far Cry 5 is a mixture of things that happened in the 80's and current issues happening in the world right now. The religion aspect is more akin to Rajneesh then Branch Davidians. The aspect of current real world tensions only bleed in as background noise, as is the case with the radios which hint at something much greater going on. As I have mentioned, the cult is easily explainable. It's a Doomsday cult feeding off the ongoing issues at the time, and feeding people narcotics. In similarity with Rajneesh, they actively bought up land, influenced local elections, and directly used their power in numbers too take over a small rural area. Eventually, said cult started arming itself when they thought the man was coming down on them. This started small with a few guards, and ended up with a paramilitary force. The story can also be seen as an allegory for Scientology. It has several cult bases in rural America, including their infamous "camp" which acts as a military compound. They have been known to use legal might to deal with people and their logo is parodied. I think the greatest problem for this game is not that it's not saying something, it's more of a case that people wanted an evil alt-right shootem' up, and they didn't get that. Now those very people who have never studied this kind of shit, are left confused and disappointed. It is not a discussion of Alt-Right... It's a discussion of radical extremist exploiting poor situations, and taking over areas with legal and demographic shift. It's a case of what happens when forces of classic rural, meets new age religions. Also I'd like to point this out... Several narcotics exist that act in similar fashion to Bliss. Most notably, scopolamine which is known as a mind control substance, and comes from a flower. It also comes from the nightshade family. It's also a white flower. http://195.251.197.1/pharmacology_en/images/plant_images/6)%20Hyoscyamus%20niger/2)%20Hyoscyamus%20niger.jpg It's almost as if... This is Bliss.

tbh I really hate the way Far Cry 5's ending is presented, mostly agreeing with what the video said. While I have no problem with this kind of endings, I feel like they did a really bad job with it, whether it be the theme or the execution.

The problem with Far Cry 5's story is how thoroughly lackluster it is, not an issue of the audience not being in-depth knowledgeable about cults. A couple of real world parallels don't change anything. The cult is also cartoonishly evil, which is a far cry from any of the ones you listed.

Errant Signal hitting it on the nose as usual. Although I have to disagree that Far Cry 5 doesn't offend. The setting and theme make that near impossible. Even if you try, there will always be someone who can find something: https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/paxwzg/wait-why-are-there-so-many-black-people-in-far-cry-5 As for the mechanics side of things, I wonder if that isn't an effect of budget constraints and development time. I'm sure Ubisoft thought about fire mechanics or cover mechanics, but either decided that would make things 'too inaccessible' or take too much time or money to implement? Overall good video though

Development time definitely plays into it, but not so much that it should excuse it, I think. I think the point Errant Signal often tries to emphasize when he talks about these lackluster mechanics is how they're, often intentionally, underutilized. These reasons usually relate to, as you said, accessibility stuff, but it's more of a damning critique of the total lack of thematic scope in Far Cry 5 and a larger focus on what he would consider to be wasting potential. The fire mechanics remain but are intentionally left more static because the game doesn't really need a robust fire system. They're happy to continue to show off the technology, but what was once an ambitious, often un-fun mechanic that hooked into the narrative is now just another gameplay tool for the player. They're happy to allow cover to be destructible and dynamic, but they don't want to leave the player feeling too helpless. These aren't mistakes, these are intentional design decisions that point to a totally different design goal in general. This is actually completely okay in most cases, but for people like Errant Signal, there's a heavier expectation for a series that has actually made a point with it's mechanics before. To make a point way too simple, Far Cry 5 lacks it's own version of the fire mechanic. There's nothing in there that really relates to the narrative or theme of the game, a game that is notable confused over whether or not it's fundamentally anti or pro-gun. Far Cry 2, for all it's faults and misguided decisions, had a reason to make a totally innovative and impressive fire propagation technology, and that reason paid off in satisfying and thematic ways. What can you think of that is similar in Far Cry 5, that gives anywhere near the same effect as described in the video? Whether or not a game has 'failed' or deserves critique because of this is totally up to the individual, which is why I think Errant Signal's critiques are often so interesting to watch.

i really do not get why people are hammering far cry 5 for having a meh story as hard as they are.

They tried to portray it as having a really good and interesting story and the potential for an amazing story in a great setting was there. But they not only didn't do anything with it, they did the story worse than the worst parts of any of the other games. It has completely terrible plot points and aspects that interfere heavily with gameplay and a constant run of nonsense and plot holes. And then the ending is a fucking grand slam of stupidity and bad writing that instead of having the awe and shock they wanted it to leave the players with leaves them going, "Fuck that dumb shit."

When your story is so forced onto the player that you literally kidnap them as they're kicking and screaming so they can sit through monologues on a routine basis, it had better be fucking good. Farcry 5's story is not.

Well, to be fair, in the editor, the Bliss containers are labeled things like "scopolamine barrel." As for the other things, I can't agree. It's like in the Far Cry 5 thread, there's a guy who constantly posts about the game's allusions to the Book of Revelation, as if that somehow justifies the story. Okay, so fine, the game has interesting Revelation references and/or is an accurate portrayal of a cult based on historical references, it still lets its villains endlessly monologue about how you're the one in the wrong and causing the apocalypse - going so far as to apparently try and cement this fact with the ending - when you're a law enforcement officer trying to stop a crazy cult from kidnapping, brainwashing, and murdering people! (Plus a gamer who paid $60 to play your game. You telling me not to buy and play your games anymore Ubisoft?)

I agree that it doesn't say enough. Punches were pulled everywhere, but the point that cults like this exist or have existed in one way or another is true. Terrorist groups like ISIS, Boko Haram, and Abu Sayaaf are closer allegories, even the Crusades could be taken as ammunition for the game's theme. Using Violence to Silence people's beliefs never works out well. You reap what you sow. You're talking about me and that's okay. I don't think the story is perfect, nor do I think the structure is perfect. There are a lot of flaws with it. Personally I think the ending was perfect, because I saw the ending coming a mile away. I thought the game did a fairly good job foreshadowing it.Joseph basically tells you how the story will go. I also think that Pride (the feeling of deserving something else) is the feeling that most people would feel with that ending. You did everything Joseph thought you'd do. Then again, the game railroads the fuck out of you in some instances that I found annoying. Some choices weren't even choices, and rang a bit hollow. I will admit the entire Only You section of Jacob's got me, I ended up killing Eli without hesitation. Then, I tried to leave the Marshal in the Bliss because I never wanted him back. Then he went and killed Virgil. I was pissed because I knew that shit was coming. All of his siblings and his backstory were supposed to humanize this madman, and I don't think that they nailed that. There are many faults with the story, it asks a lot of the player. Patience, suspension of disbelief, and willingness to read into the story. They don't give you a lot of information, and thus the Book of Revelation THEORY was born due to it's similarities. The game is open to interpretation, and I don't think all of the information required to analyse it has been uncovered. Tl;Dr. While I think the game's ending was perfect. I understand the game as a whole is flawed and has a weak confusing message.

I can't help but wonder if the guy actually took note of anything going on in Far Cry 5, because it seems he covered his ears in every cutscene and story element. >Said Far Cry 5/the cult doesn't "namedrop Jesus or any specific ideology", yet in the Church in Fall's End, Mohammed is namedropped very loudly, giving the scene its context and impact. >Said "their secessionary position isn't motivated by paranoia, or federal government overreach", but the cult talks about how it's preparing for the collapse of society, that the government is shit (Jacob Seed literally saying "Look at the headlines, look who's in charge!" at one point), and that they have to secure a new "Garden of Eden" to prosper in once the world comes to an end. Pretty cut and dry to me. >Said Far Cry 2 is "interested in expressing a worldview, even if it does to in potentially awkward or heavy-handed way". Far Cry 5 is literally about the extremism seen in America with cults through history, and how the world is getting progressively crazier to the point where this kind of thing happens on this grand a scale. Yeah

Sad to see how Far Cry 5's setting and story turned out considering how nice Far Cry 3's story and setting were.

The Project at Eden's Gate cult seems as though their intentions were to build a New Eden on top of Hope County to outlast the Great Collapse. Hence, Project. They wanted to create a paradise and in the process, became the monsters they wanted to outlive. Funnily enough, as you can see they honestly think they're doing God's work by protecting he people by showing them the collapse is near. Eden's Gate's scripture seems to take from lots of different religions and mostly take quotes from the bible. The game even starts with on the TV to the Deputy's left, "They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers." -Revelation 17:14 They tell you how the game ends if you pay attention.

I thought the ending was great. The only way it could be better is if I could choose between taking over the cult, destroying all the cult members but also all the all the cougars, or magically making everybody with a cult member and not a cult member.