Hey guys. I'm working on a Fallout themed map. I've gotten feedback here and there from both friends and more experienced mappers but I think there's enough going on in the map now to make a thread about it here. Furthermore I think it's important to see what people in the Gmod community have to say since that's who will be potentially playing the map.
For those wondering this map is very near completion, I don't like giving release dates because I've done so many times only to let people down but you can expect it soon. Also please keep in mind although it is almost done it is still WIP and you will see some weird things in the pics.
https://s31.postimg.cc/s0qxr6svv/4000_screenshots_20180430184757_1.jpg
https://s31.postimg.cc/5c1qrmqxn/4000_screenshots_20180506211035_1.jpg
https://s31.postimg.cc/rb85eun7f/4000_screenshots_20180506211144_1.jpg
https://s31.postimg.cc/sdibxelgb/4000_screenshots_20180506211119_1.jpg
https://s31.postimg.cc/e72l26q0r/4000_screenshots_20180506211229_1.jpg
https://s31.postimg.cc/sdibxfo17/4000_screenshots_20180506211237_1.jpg
https://s31.postimg.cc/9xxv01pcb/4000_screenshots_20180506211308_1.jpg
https://s31.postimg.cc/98f2np48b/4000_screenshots_20180506211351_1.jpg
https://s31.postimg.cc/5ot4xw98b/4000_screenshots_20180506211401_1.jpg
https://s31.postimg.cc/iu8n3fq2z/4000_screenshots_20180506211339_1.jpg
https://s31.postimg.cc/99p0gkg6j/4000_screenshots_20180506161127_1.jpg
https://s31.postimg.cc/4b1i21rt7/4000_screenshots_20180506161117_1.jpg
https://s31.postimg.cc/xq76b2r7v/4000_screenshots_20180506161138_1.jpg
Some things of mention:
-This map has had many models ported from New Vegas from scratch as the ones currently on the workshop all had problems with either scaling, texture artifacts, or poor collision models. However this also means that there is a load of custom content to be downloaded. Sorry about that :/
-This map uses an optimization for open maps similar to the one seen in Rockford where the low-render version of the map is shoved into the skybox and a farz is implemented. Unfortunately though, there is a visual artifact that accompanies this method when using large models. The artifact being the model will disappear from the periphery of the users vision. Hopefully I can come up with some solution to this.
-Many people have helped me make this map by offering technical advice/motivation. I am very grateful to all of these people for taking time out of their day to help me, I would not have been able to complete this map without the help of each and every one of them. Thank you all so much.
Blueberry_pie: Why has this man not removed me from steam yet?
Bizz: And you thought you knew how to code?
Pastakattila: Sarcasm machine
Atle: Great guy, works like a damn demon.
TopHATTwaffle: hes alright i guess
Tanooki: How does this man get admin everywhere?
Practical Problems: baduser
Stiffy360: map thread v18 when
Grinchfox: Too smart for this planet.
Brigadier General Bacon™: I'm afraid of this man.
Frost: snugs and kisses
ArMaGeDdOn: Dad
Adroon: Good
CSGO John Madden: Better
Tom Kecka: Aids but greatest sport I ever met
Machete Yeti: Silky smooth voice and great at being a person
mars/aesop/bebop: Yung baller
Rekhoem: Self aware neckbeard
Alex: Changes his steam name too much and owns a bad rp server. Also possibly the worst coder ever. <3
[TEC]---==ANONIM-TEC==---: Friendly and passionate guy.
Gnomp
The person reading this
Additional credits:
Bethesda softworks: Fallout New Vegas
Obsidian Entertainment: Fallout New Vegas
NMC: NMCs_Texture_Pack_For_New_Vegas
Tricky Vein: Sandcrete Architecture - a resource for modders
Is there any specific reason why your models aren't casting shadows? This looks weird.
Also, the lighting is very dull. It looks a lot like the actual fallout games, which isn't really good. You should work on the light_environment settings and fog.
Maybe some detail sprites for dead grass wouldn't hurt.
I know you are trying to imitate the fallout games, but be sure to differentiate their upsides and downsides, and add some kind of twist.
You want fries with that?
A rule of thumb I use is if your sky is a color, your ambient should be in the ballpark of that color too. I use the sky as a base because the light would be reflected from the atmosphere and would spread around. Try playing around with that at bit.
Also, given that it's not overcast or super foggy, your shadows should be sharper. I tend to like 0.5 on clear day skyboxes.
In the pics above the lighting was made to match the sky color as best as I could get it to match.
Here's the values:
https://s31.postimg.cc/q7x7u4h97/Capture.png
Also, the reason I don't want to make shadows sharper is because having lower lightmap scale decreases performance. This map is already quite demanding. I'm simply un-willing to compromise on that front.
Okay, looks good, I just couldn't tell because it's so dark. Also, I should've clarified here; I meant 0.5 for the SunSpreadAngle in the light environment sorry about that!
I was going to ask but I was afraid to look dumber than I already do. Thanks for the feedback man, and no worries.
No problem dude, look forward to seeing some more changes <3
Wow.
Honestly, it looks alright but I definitely agree with the opinion that lighting is important. One of the best improvements Fallout 4 made was that there was a lot of colour added, and it made the environment significantly more appealing.
Maybe this can be of use? I know it has that Fallout NV feel, with the whole yellow/orange lighting
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/811/91921079-6200-4ca0-b289-706df72bc380/image.png
But if you're sky is going to be blue, hopefully your sunlight is close to white.
Hmm, this is helpful actually. I'll test a bit and see what I can do. However I think that the color of the map's lighting is generally okay, I think people are just confusing the problem with lighting as the problem with repetitive textures. Which I am actually most certainly working on as I recently found a way to do upwards of 3 way blends, so I'll be making the ground look alot less repetitive. That and the lack of color variance which honestly I can only do so much about, I'm no modeler and even if I was re-modeling all the props to be more color diverse would be a huge job. I will try my best to at least make town in the style of traditional source maps, a structured layout, brush buildings and many lights to compliment them. This is just not feasible to do in the general wasteland. It would look really weird to just have random different colored lights scattered about, wouldn't it?
Jesus christ, this map's rad as fuck.
Tha main problem with the map is an absolute lack of depth. Lighting is partially at fault here, but I will get to this later. What you really need to do, however, is change your fog values. The purpose of fog isn't to make distant mountains blue, you can do that with materials etc. The purpose of fog is to give a map a sense of depth that is usually taken for granted when looking with your eyes IRL. A good starting point would be to have your fog start 128 or so units in front of the player and the fog end somewhere around 1.5 x the longest viewable distance in your map. This will work wonders regarding depth perception. (it isn't really surprising the fallout games use a lot of fog)
Second problem is the lighting. Its not fine as it is. Your lighting has way too much contrast to look even remotely realistic. In real life, high-contrast lighting is directly related to sharp shadows during a clear day. What you have is very dark shadows that are incredibly blurry because of your (understandable) low light map site. This looks awful. I will suggest how you could fix it at the end of the post.
The lightings colour is also problematic. I don't know what your sun settings are, but your ambience is a way too saturated blue that serves no real purpose (it doesn't create anything meaningful or realistic). Furthermore, the overall colour ambience is not the models or textures fault. (well, it is partially, but fallout 3 has some terrible textures, can't really do much about it) Colour ambience comes either from the lighting or from colorcorrection. Im not suggesting the stupid green hue of fallout 3, but you need some kind of colour to bind the map together and give it some definition.
What I would do is change the overall ambience of the map to an overcast (post-apocalyptic etc.) environment much similar to fallout 3 (as opposed to fNV). This would enable you to get a interesting skybox, fix your lighting issues, justify some thicker fog and give you a great opportunity at introducing some colour to your map.
You could also use some smokevolumes or particles to give certain places additional depth.
You can choose to ignore my advice, but that won't really make your map any better. I have lots of experience on this topic, all my maps feature interesting atmospheres that I'm very proud of. But for the love of god don't post a thread if you don't want actual constructive criticism.
Yeah the lighting is so dry and drabreminds me of CSCDesert, a map made over a decade ago.
Some of the screenshots even look dead-on with Fallout: New Vegas, which is bad considering it's based on a fifteen-plus-year-old engine branch and vanilla New Vegas, as good as it is, looks like dogshit at the best of times..
Man I told you guys I'm over myself and I'm here to learn. Anyways, I really must be trippin' cause I thought the lighting looked great. I'll be honest, I'm not a pro mapper by any means, I know hammer and source itself decently enough to make an optimized open map, however in terms of artistic talent, I can barely draw stick figures. That's sort of why I never viewed myself as a real mapper. Moving on, that may be why things look a bit, IDK, weird, especially in terms of lighting.
From all the feedback on the lighting and how you guys say its bad, I'm embarrassed to admit that I actually spent a really long time getting it to look like that. This makes me sad.
Suffice to say if this really does look as bad as you all say, I'm in trouble, because I haven't the slightest idea how to make it better. Also, Grenade Man, I tried to make the map a bit more apocalyptic looking before but it looked horrid. Prepare yourself because this might give you several tumors:
https://s14.postimg.cc/qvv610069/4000_screenshots_20170908233012_1.jpg
I am trying to look at how atomic does the lighting and will post updates once I try my best to take Grenade's advice on lighting style. Thanks for all the great feedback guys.
I would lighten a bit, after all, a very climatic map
Okay guys, I tried my best to maintain the rich color of the ground but at the same time balance it by not making it too overpowering to the eyes. I followed Howl's advice and tried to keep the contrast between ground and sky within a reasonable range. I've made the fog start close to the player (128 units) and end 77,000 units away, with a density of .54, the fog color is a mix between the bottom sky color and top sky color. I also swapped the textures for a new texture that tiles far less noticeably.
Please let me know what you think. Thanks in advance.
Old:
https://s7.postimg.cc/jxl609l0b/4000_screenshots_20180506211119_1.jpg
New:
https://s7.postimg.cc/5r5f51xaj/4000_screenshots_20180509131928_1.jpg
Okay adjust a bit more:
https://s7.postimg.cc/n96lr71dn/4000_screenshots_20180510035355_1.jpg
The first version looks best to me tbh
btw utterly brilliant at capturing the feel of NV
The first one you mean the one posted in the original post? Everyone here seems to agree with Grenade so if so many people think the lighting is bad, that must mean something, right?
I'm glad you like it tho man.
I feel like the third one conveys the desert heat the best as the ground is at its brightest, the others seem like the sun going down, unless thats what you're going for.
Honestly, I think your sky isn't blue enough. Take this picture of the Mojave, for example:
https://ourtakeonfreedom.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/findthervdesert.jpg
I also think that longer, deeper shadows could work in your favor. It all depends on which time of day your map is set on; play around and find one that casts some interesting shadows.
Well this video shows some more lighting changes, changed the texture color and the skybox color and added moving clouds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8bcGM9BiyA&feature=youtu.be
It looks great! Glad you finished it and I love the look of the dirt and road overlay mixing. I'll subscribe to this map!
Thank you man and a bigger thank you for the diamond. I been wanting to change my name forever!
Although criticism may have been a bit too sharp for a beginner.
As a new map maker myself I would love to have you as a contact.
Do you happen to have a discord I can friend?
You did a good job with improving the map. All in all its a quality release, well done.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
