At what point has anyone but Trump and his cronies said that there are political ulterior motives coming from the investigative team? I'm genuinely curious, because this belief seems to, in my mind, simply stem from the constant waves of propaganda coming from the administration and being perpetuated on social media.
I find the idea that guns are supposed to be a deterrent against a corrupt government seizing power rather amusing since that seems to be what the American people truly desire.
right?? the exact people who are always bitching and moaning about "I'm not giving up my firearms!! i need them to overthrow a fascist, tyrannical regime of authoritarianism!!!" and, in all likelihood, would be the people to lead a revolution, are the ones eating up trump's shit like it's a steak
That and people need to realize that these huge governments and companies etc are going to be way the hell more subtle than this generic evil hollywood bullshit where they have a military take over or something
they aren't going to seize power by force. It's a billion times more silent than that.
Remember, boys and girls: It's not corruption if the government is mistreating the people you don't like!
Keith Olbermann might be a bit a drama queen, but he said one thing around the election that really sums things up: "You know this man." Few people have ever so publicly demonstrated themselves to be terrible people so often, and in such varied ways as Donald J. Trump, but people have such a desperate need to belive in this imaginary, utterly devoid-from-reality fantasy of Trump that they continue to compartmentalize each of his constant, daily failures at basic human decency into their own little seperate boxes so that they never have to look at it all at once and confront what a pathetic, amoral specimen of a human being they've been idolizing.
10% of it is obviously motivated by party bullshit before the midterms/upset over the election loss. The other 90% is legitimate concerns that seriously need to be looked into.
I know I'll probably get flak for the first part, but I have seen tons of people who have posted about this all being on party lines, instead of a concern of the republic and the system of election.
The party line shit needs to be thrown out the window, and it needs to be observed for what it is: Something which threatens the very core values of our republic, and what it stands for.
My guess is that there are at least some people who believe that Russia did actually interfere in the election, but the investigation is political.
Because Putin & Trump are (perceived to be [Putin is an ex-KGB agent and his real goal is likely just to cause chaos in the American political system, in the 60s-80s the KGB would've supported left-wing radicals for the same reason]) allied to the right-wing of politics and the investigation into election tampering is (perceived to be [I know Mueller and Comey and other concerned parties are actually republicans/conservative]) the result of the left-wing of politics.
In other words, the issue of whether Russia interfering in the election is a bad thing has become a partisan issue.
Or to put it another way in the Delay, Deny, Deflect, Defend model of defending from criticism, they've moved from "There was no collusion" to "Yea there was conclusion but it wasn't bad/illegal" to "Yea, there was collusion but so what- the other people would be even worse".
The argument that an armed populace is a deterrent against tyranny has always been the most laughable argument in support of gun rights. The government doesn't need to take away your rights by force when they can get you to beg them to take them just by fearmongering and propagandizing enough. The gun owning demographic of America has done a pretty shit job of deterring corruption in recent history because the overwhelming majority of them have been in support of corrupt, oppressive policy.
The real deterrent against tyranny in a democracy is an educated populace. If these people really want to combat government oppression, they should pick up a fucking book, not a gun.
The longer this investigation goes on, the less faith people have in it.
I'm not saying they're right, but I can tell that average folks are getting tired of waiting for results and starting to enter that "aggressive apathy" phase where they'll begin actively shouting it down just to not hear about it anymore.
I mean, it'd be difficult to argue that it wasn't.
Someone with no political opinions wouldn't care about their democratic integrity being attacked.
I'm all for the investigation myself, but I do wonder at what hypothetical point it would end if nothing that would bring about concrete convictions pops up, unless we're planning on running it all the way to 2020 or longer, which would amplify the problem even more.
I'm growing weary of the investigation myself, because it just seems to be dragging ooooooon and oooooooonnnnn and we're no closer to getting trump out than we were when this shit started. To me, it's coming down to 2 outcomes, either trump gets impeached, or a new president gets voted in in 2020, whichever comes first at this point.
Lie to the country using a propaganda network and discrediting the media and eventually they’ll buy it.
I don't think it's just that, it'd say it's also because...
The deadly combination of impatient people and lies and propaganda.
"More Americans reveal themselves as idiots"
Keep in mind the change is from Republicans. Most independents and nearly all democrats agree the probe needs to continue.
Take your dumb generalizations and go circlejerk elsewhere. I think Trump has done a terrible job at being president and I’m sure other educated gun enthusiasts like Grenadiac and Catbarf would agree.
On mobile right now so I can’t go into more detail at the moment.
I think he's talking about the nutjobs within the community who think Obama is a Kenyan Socialist and wants to take his all guns away and that Hillary is a fascist dictator wannabe. A group Catbarf and Grenadiac obviously wouldn't fall under.
Generalizations exist for a reason. Nobody here is claiming they apply to every single gun owner or gun rights advocate, that's absurd. What we are saying is something that's common knowledge. That a great amount of the 2nd amendment advocates in the country have intensely conservative leanings and vote Republican - and that most of those see no issue with the way the President and his goons are conducting themselves, when they're threatening the country in the very manner the 2nd amendment was added to deter.
I wasn't really talking about gun owners do much as I was pointing out how tyrannical government is more likely to be met with cheers than guns.
Hey, guess what buddy! I'm a gun enthusiast too! I'm not talking about gun enthusiasts specifically, and this most certainly is not a circlejerk. I'm talking about the people who would kiss the ground Trump walks on, the people who call him GEOTUS, or would suck his cock just so they could tell their friends they did it. These people are almost always the people I referred to earlier. Learn to read.
People who think Trump is doing a terrible job as president will still vote for him, or abstain, if it came down to a choice between Trump and an anti-gun Democrat. There is an ongoing discussion in another thread about how gun enthusiasts can't compromise on gun rights because once they are gone, they are gone forever (to paraphrase). I'd say pepole like you, grenadiac, and catbarf are the exception, not the rule.
While i understand that point, I think there needs to be more effort from democrats to listen to non-nutjob gun owners, and I think the continuous painting of all gun owners isnt helping
And more than ever America could use a good war to cleanse all these Trump loving inbred creations of the cesspool.
I can't wait until this fucking scum gets impeached, I will immediately put down whatever I'm doing and celebrate.
i still think the best move the dems could make would be to drop firearms restrictions from their platform.
I think the media swiveling onto Trump paying off Stormy Daniels is sort of indication that the case for "Russian collusion" is going nowhere.
They are seperate, unrelated issues.
One is a lawsuit that is going into the courts against Trump himself.
The other is a special prosecutor who is directly assigned under Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, meaning that as a special prosecutor his job is entirely separate and uninvolved with the lawsuit.
The fact you're either unaware of these things, or willing to lump it all together as if it was the same thing, is a sign that we actually don't have to listen to you on the subject as you're unaware of reality.
Fuck yeah! I want to be dead too! Fuck all of this
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