Ralph Nader - 'Democratic Party Stop Scapegoating & Look In The Mirror!' - General

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeLEiHUnXCg

Nah fuck Ralph Nader. Dude was never going to win and he knew it, he just wanted to fulfill some weird political fantasy of sticking it to the establishment and in the end we got Bush, Iraq, Afghanistan, 2008 economic collapse, no solutions on climate change, etc out of it. Good job, you did it, you helped cause most of the issues that still taint global geopolitics today. As long as FPTP is a thing third parties are just vote leeches. Florida was 700 votes off from Gore winning, Ralph won 70k in Florida. Jeb throwing out a shitton of black votes for extremely minor issues (Like not filling out a bubble correctly or something), Ralph, Recount shutdown, etc all fucking shit up the world we have today. Do not discount how much damage this man has done, even indirectly.

He knows the voting system against him out spite of getting 2.8 million nationwide due Democratic voters don't like Gore for some political reason cause half them more to Bush than him and Electoral college clearly favoring Bush anyway, so realistically no excusing on what cause someone to lose. And please quit being extreme dumbass about it and if Democrats (especially toxic center-right democrat types) refusing to move on from these loses, than they will keep losing until while.

Lol I'm ideology wise more left leaning than most people on this forum but I also have a shitton of skin in the game so I want to play realpolitik instead of jackoff how ideologically pure I can manage to be. It's the worst thing about leftist spaces, I've been in enough to get fed up with it.

I don't get it. You said it yourself that Jeb was throwing out Democratic votes, and the Supreme Court sided with his bullshit anyway - and yet somehow Gore losing is Nader's fault?

Because he still played a part in causing it. If he didn't campaign and there was some less populist green party candidate all it would've taken was 2% of those green voters in florida to vote Democrat, that is not an unrealistic expectation.

Well 1.6% (or 1.635%) according to Wikipedia's 2000 Floridan Presidential Election page, But doesn't accuse them to Gore loss instead not blaming 25th thousand Democratic voters for Bush won because they don't like Gore's positions or his personality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Florida,_2000

Maybe if the democrats got their act together and supported real change instead of towing the status quo, they wouldn't need to worry about 3rd party "parasites". Instead, they supported one of the most corrupt politicians for the 2016 election because she was a "safe bet".

What in the fuck? Dude, there was an entire legal case that reach the supreme court that threw out a large number of Democratic votes. Gore v. United States showed that the counting process didn't actually count a large number of Urban votes and the Supreme Court decided anyway to stop the recount.

first past the post is terrible, can we get ordinal voting please?

no, because FPTP benefits the established power and generates voter apathy, which is really powerful for them

Well, there least lesser known few electoral reform organizations are beginning effectively change in cites and even state for now (after year of in-battle between toxic "critics" vs supporters trying keep in) are adopting Ranked-Choice voting. Yes, But these days are very slowly number in future if these reform movement continue begin changing different parts of country.

I think you drank the democratic kool aid on this one comrade Nader is a weird guy and was a weird situation back then, but in the current political crisis we have, and face going forwards, I see small steps as being too little, too late. Hilary Clinton, though not a villain, would likely have effectively done much of the same enriching, and empowering of corporations that we see going on currently. She'd have actually done it quietly and properly though, the status quo isn't working anymore for the average person. Small, insignificant steps forward are the only real option that the american public has, but that's why it's broken. It's a system design to offer the least possible action, and it has done so. No real change, can, or will ever occur in that manner in the United States, and I'm not saying voting third party will change that. I truly believe the only thing to do, or to be done, is to run independent/democratic candidates at a low/local level of government across the nation and try and take over the democratic party. But the issue is the Democrats are able to deny people membership so they're able to maintain their own status quo. The system is massively broken, and while you are correct that the only pragmatic solution is to vote for the lesser of two evils, this just illustrates how damaged the system really is, and how mountainous the opposition to having true representation really is.