Rust has been an awesome experience for me, but like all great things, they must eventually come to an end. I have put in about 5,000 hours and it was really worth it. I'll never forget a lot of the memories I had and the friends I've made while doing so. However, despite all the good memories I've had, I'd like to explain the reason why I am leaving.
Rust used to be a very casual friendly game, where you were excited to hop on each wipe and enjoy your weekend pvping or interacting with others. This however, is not the case anymore. Rust has changed a lot since the XP system, and for some it may be for the better, but for players like me, not so much. Don't get me wrong, I think a lot of the concepts and updates they have recently came out with are awesome. It's great work and I admire all the work Facepunch has put into it.
Rust has become less casual friendly and way more grindy --- too grindy. The current system benefits large groups and solo players really struggle, way more than before. A group of 20 will unlock everything 20x faster than a solo player. If that isn't saying something, I don't know what is. I hope anyone that reads this can at least somewhat understand my criticism. The old blueprint system was amazing. The XP system was just as good (maybe better with a little bit more tweaking) but the current system is going to be (hopefully i'm wrong) the downfall of Rust.
Anyways, I know a lot of people will disagree with me, and that's fine. I don't expect everyone to agree, just like I do not agree with people that think the current system is fine (maybe they haven't reached the same point as me yet). I've at least tried this system and gave it a chance. Now i'm saying it's time for me to move on. Between the new building system combined with the component/hybrid system, this game is just not fun anymore.
Facepunch - Thank you for the memories and the experience. Like I said, hopefully I am wrong and there is great success with this game. But I just cannot see it anymore.
Sincerely,
-Jaco
Goodbye!
ah, again you are making me provide my opinion when I have not finished all of my "homework" (i.e lining up my facts, beccause I dont like to talk without having facts to back it up), but I do have about 75% of my facts "straight", so I'll give you what I have so far:
1) I disagree that Rust has gotten more grindy. I was just testing the "grind" on the Reddit server (full vanilla, for those wondering) - and I was able to get insane amounts of scrap solo. More then ever in my 1000 hrs of playing.
2) The boats - were a great contribution to that. They are not just "fun" and provide content - but they also allow anyone (but especially the solo player) get more scrap. Long "forgotten" monuments that are less frequently visited like the Lighthouse are now again accessible and are great spots to recycle (and to hunt other solo players). I finally got like 3 solo kills in a row, which hasn't happened to me in a long while in this "zerg friendly" game.
3) underwater play + scuba gear. Also allows for great flexibility, especially for the solo player. I was able to get like 2 laptops and 2 CCTVs (which is 60+40 = 100 scrap) in a matter of minutes just from 1 "sunken ship pile".
This I agree with, but only because this is natural and logical - not because you are using this as a "negative" point for Rust. I mean in any game (and IRL) usually (usually is the keyword) a group will achieve thigs better/faster then 1 lone wolf. I mean thats how the world works. Even in Ark - a group will level up faster and achieve more. (btw more on Rust vs Ark later on).
So...I personally never experienced the XP system, so the only option I figure out was to try it - by installing Ark (and at the same time try out Ark, right? Kill 2 birds with 1 stone, eh?).
And here is my feedback (Rust vs Ark - but more like XP vs Scrap):
1) XP system is fun, and more noob/casual friendly. Its way less competitive though, and it makes "less sense" (wack a tree and some rocks for 30 min - unlock a new gun/tool/building? wtf?). Using scrap as "experience" makes much more sense to me. You gather a resource (scrap) and you can then use it to learn whatever other things you have found. Researching - you can also experiment using these "units" and get new stuff. From a realism standpoint - Scrap makes perfect (more) sense to me, then whacking a tree or killing a dino and getting a new explosive item unlocked.
2) Essentially "XP" (as in experience points) are the same as "Scrap" (units of scrap). Both are some "units" which are finite, which you need to grind by putting yourself into dangerous situations to get more of this resource. However: XP can be farmed in relative safety (stay in noob zone and wack trees) - scrap cannot (well, not until all the recent maritime changes, that make it almost trivial getting scrap, even for a solo). XP also cannot be transferred or stolen. It is bound to your character! Scrap - on the other hand, whole diff story!
Also a huge competitiveness factor in favor of scrap = base raiding. In Ark, (and I have like sub 100 hrs, but like I've said, I wish you gave me more time before writing this), but I cant really fathom why would I raid anyone? I mean yeah - I can get their resources...but if Im fairly stacked on resources...I dont really need much more, do I? less reason to raid (i.e Ark is less competitive or more "carebearish").
In Rust however - I always want to raid some base - not just for resources, but to hopefully get some scrap (and almost all resources[components] can be recycled into scrap anyway). So this is like "raiding to steal experience and add it into my pool of experience" - you can never do this in Ark or in any other game to date.
Let me say this again so it sinks in for everyone: in Rust - you can raid someone to steal their experience units (scrap units) to add it to your own pool (i.e. help yourself "level up"). yes - this is unheard of! And it makes Rust so much more competitive. (and some people just love competitiveness, I know i do).
Anyway, Im def sad to see you go, and I hope you will re-think and come back, I played Eve Online on and off for like 10+ years... sometimes in full loot super competitve MMOs its ok to take time off once in a while
100% agree on the pure fact that the game is extremely grindy. Im still enjoying it and dealing with it but it is ever so slowly dying(for me).
The thing is it will continue on without much complaining because of modded/community servers with multipliers, no decay, no upkeep, no bps ect..
I still vote to either remove scrap cost for workbenches, lower the 750 scrap items or yeild more scrap from looting. That and make upkeep more for more players who have tc access.(CLEARLY would need some coding and whatnot, so save me the "auto turrets dont have tc or people could just not get access).
As simple as making storage boxes and containers need tc access thus making raiders have to break them and enable a tc access/re-access have a 48 hours cool down
Just my 2 cents
definitely agree that the game has never been this grindy before. Component system was pretty good for solo players and now when bp wipe is coming up you need to get 1125 scrap to be able craft sar for example. That's why i have taken a pretty long break and focused on overwatch,but i will probably start playing again next force wipe
@captainrussia I understand a lot of your points. The thing is, not every person is on Rust for the same reason. I played Rust because I enjoyed the old building system, and back when I started playing I didn't feel forced to play a certain way. If I was raided, I could spend the day getting my stuff back. With the current system, not only do you constantly have to grind for scrap and components, but once you are raided (which has been mostly offline for me), all that grinding and effort you put in is gone. You have to start over. The old BP system and XP system, you could still bounce back from that and go back for your enemies. It was a game, not a chore. It feels like a job now, and for some players, cool, but for me and a lot of others I spoke with, we are just going to find a game that is more rewarding.
This game at the moment feels forced for one style of gameplay (competitive), which to me has made the community extremely toxic. Hell, even in these forums you get those toxic players like @Shadowfoxx6 who can't respect how someone else feels. The community used to be fun. Sure there was some smack talking here and there, but most of my friends I made on this game was randoms that I ran into. It doesn't feel like that anymore. It's turned into who has the biggest balls and can talk the most smack. Not fun... just extremely toxic.
I always thought to myself, if casual players can't handle the grind on vanilla, go play on modded. Hell, all of my servers were modded, but there has been two problems with modded servers. Either they are laggy as hell or I still feel they are too grindy. XP system was grindy ofc, but there was a big difference between that system and the component system. When you were raided, or even killed, it didn't feel like you lost everything. It felt like a game. You die, you go farm a little bit of stuff back and go out and fight again.
Again, not everyone is going to feel the same way as I do. I respect you if you don't and I am glad you are getting something out of this game. I'm not sure how many hours you have, or how much you play, but a month or two ago, I felt different than I do right now. Maybe you feel this way about it now, but in due time you will feel the same way as me.
grouping is just not balanced :/
Sad to see you go
the game is grindy - but its much less grindy then it was like 3 months ago.
Everything else you've said I agree with. They need to probably do another light pass on upkeep (maybe make it scale up to 40-50% even, but at a slower rate - so a smaller base can become a bit bigger before the big upkeep kicks in)
They also need to rebalance offline raiding. See more discussion on it here: Offline Raid balance. Timers. Conan vs Eve Online vs Rust.
Its much less grindy now, wth? You get like 5x more scrap now (opposed to January) on vanilla from water and underwater piles?!? And its easy to solo...
If you are raided now - cant you just rebuild the same way - you still keep all the BP's you've learned, same as XP system, no? Plus 24 hr raid protection lets you keep your base, so you can even use that (and most raiders who "seal" you base dont put resources into TC, so the sealed walls decay in 5 hrs, while ur base still stands for 24, so u can always get in and break their TC and rebuild yours)
It definitely is competitive, but it can't be more competitive then DOTA or StarCraft (where there is no room for "creativity" or casual play - its all about being competitive). At least in Rust we still have a choice. I won't argue too much about this point, because everyone's experience (even if they have more hours) can be different. I have a bit over 1k hours, and last wipe I allied up (or became "friendly/neutral") with 2 big (5+ man) clans near me. I ended up throwing away a full box of sulfur to the "wipe gods" because I didnt even have a chance to raid anyone and I was stacked on scrap, because nobody else messed with me as I was kind of "protected" in between the 2 clans I befriended.
Moral of the story - KOS is not always the way, and a little diplomacy (like in EVE Online or any other hardcore full loot PVP MMO) can go a very long way.
Rust is all about surviving and surving does not just mean KOSing everyone you see and raiding every base first - before they get to raid you. There are other ways to play too. But with less adults in the game, the "mentality/psychology" of the average "naked" does change, and many are very difficult to communicate with, because those kids have not developed proper (adult) communication skills IRL yet.
you call me toxic because i disagreed with you on one post and after that you went on every other one of my posts not even related to the one i disagreed with you on and down voted all my posts for no reason and here you are calling me toxic because im kinda excited to see you go once again goodbye!!
When I say the game is grindy, i'm not comparing it to a few months ago. I'm comparing it to the old BP system and XP system. If you get offline raided, and they didn't grief your base, you now have to farm resources and components to get things back. In order to get an SMG or rifle, you gotta loot rad towns for the bodies to craft them. Back before components, all you needed was the resources. You're doing twice the amount of work which will take a while to get back to where you were before you got raided.
Like I said, some players will like it, some players wont. I personally like the old BP and XP system way better than the way it is right now. Games like the ones you've mentioned above are competitive, and that's fine, my issue isn't with the competitiveness of games, it's with the amount of grinding that goes along with it. I can hop on plenty of other games and just enjoy playing it a few hours a day. You can't do that with Rust or you will never get anywhere. Ark is grindy at first, but once you get dinos you can get resources very fast and there's no base decay. Not sure if you understand where i'm getting at or not lol
no, no I understand what you're getting at and also this is great feedback.
By no means is this about "my opinion being better then yours or vice-versa". I want to "learn" what you know and what you are experienceing (i.e. why are you "discontent" enough to quit for example).
Yes losing components after being raided which can only be found in boxes/barrels/monuments is a good point and it makes things hard.
However, and again - Im just brainstorming - wouldn't that mean the following 2 things can be done?:
EITHER - decrease difficulty/time of the grind (but that can make everything too "easily" obtainable and not feel like a loss if you lose a gear set for example as you can make like 20x more)
OR - make offline raiding (and raiding in general) either less rewarding for raiders (not sure if this is good?) or more difficult (requiring more skill?). I mean the token concept in most full loot PVP games - "risk vs reward". If there is very little risk with offline raiding (especially at 4 am with explo ammo and silencers) - then there should be either little reward, or some other cost or mechanic associated with this to balance it out.
(admittedyl I only offline raid with explo ammo and silencers...because I can, and because its easier and I dont mind crafting some extra ammo - but Im most a solo/duo, so at least I don't feel as guilty)
I've already F7 reported this thread to FP DEVs - so what Im hoping to get out of your "quitting" experience is one last piece of help - for the DEVs (and the community - those who care) to understand what the current issues are and how to fix them. Its kind of like if you're dead - but you can still help people by donating your organs and maybe saving a few others ;)
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