France to fine men up to€750 for wolf-whistling, making sexual comments to women - Sensationalist Headlines

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/france-to-fine-men-up-to-750-for-wolfwhistling-or-making-sexual-comments-to-women-36918999.html Had to change title a little because of the word count I can understand the reasoning for wanting this, but I can't see it being implemented effectively, plus it could be abused or some woman could go 'he say, she say' How the hell are you going to enforce this?

Yeah this is one of those laws that has good intentions but can be abused super hard. Seeing a lot of those lately.

How are women gonna prove men did this even? Tape/film someone doing that? Good luck, it either doesn't holds up in court or is straightly prohibited under privacy laws iirc.

This feels like bad intentions all the way tbh What happens when a woman does it? suddenly its ok?

So... does this only count for men? The article doesn't say. If so, is it not inherently sexist? More so, this would go against several French laws, most notably: "9° Des actions visant à garantir l’égalité de traitement entre les femmes et les hommes" Also like OP said, how do you even enforce this? It sounds like a load of he said-she said, and if in this case the woman is believed, that's also sexist.

They are not.

In five years everyone is going to be wearing body cams due to laws like these. You could argue phones are civilian body cams already, but often times those only come out after the start of an incident.

So huh, what's to stop any chick with bad intentions from recording themselves walking past any random dude then going back and editing in a whistling sound when the guy's offscreen?

I don't think that would constitute any sort of convincing evidence in court.

laws like these only encourage the idea that women are fragile beings in need of protection.

I wondered when it would kick in. I posted this a while ago but didn't have good sources so I had it removed. I really can't wait to see how this will be abused so much that it will make big news.

Wear a body camera that's recording 24/7 when they're out in public

Oh boy, I can't wait until we end up with The Entire History of You from Black Mirror.

It's annoying to have to click through five articles to find anything resembling hard information on how a law would actually be enforced. This article says the act has to be caught in person but emphasizes that lawyers and cops will find it hard to differentiate between flirting and harassment.

Like rape accusations, you just pray to every god conceived that the most expensive lawyer in town can work some kind of legal magic and you get off on a technicality. Otherwise, well, you don't.

They can't prosecute under this law based on word of mouth, they have to catch someone in the moment.

Doesn't change that the law is fucking stupid either way tbh.

Sexual harassment is a problem and they're passing more laws to counteract it, what exactly is stupid about it

Because it doesn't address the societal or cultural reasons these problems exist and really only serves as a feel good band-aid to a real problem? That's what I don't like about it. People still speed despite there being very clear laws and fines against it, and speeding is far more dangerous and meriting legal penalty than this is.

It's possible to both address social and cultural reasons as to why a problem exist and still attempt to discourage it through the justice system, I hope you realize that one day. The same way you'd enforce any law about a public disturbance. The police shows up and handles the situation if they're able to. Laws are still dissuasive even if you cannot enforce them 100% of the time. People speed even though it's illegal to do so but a large amount of people do effectively slow down because they would rather not have troubles with the law. Expecting laws to work 100% of the time is idiotic and an unrealistic standard to begin with. The same thing that happens whenever a policeman breaks the law, I presume ? It's not a matter of "policing thought". Nowhere was this ever claimed to be about thought policing. It's about punishing overt action.

"I'm just calling back my dog. Stop exercising your obtuse women's rights. Geez."

Seems like a good step towards recognizing catcalling as legitimate sexual harassment. Max fine seems high but I can't imagine a first offense would go that high at all.

Well, it's a good thing there isn't any of that going on here. It's a law that punishes certain actions, not thoughts. I mean, trying to pull the 'thought police' card here would just make you look like an idiot. Boy, good thing that isn't happening, huh?

Because there was a step waiting to be taken. Yes, we all, deep down, recognize catcalling at sexual harassment. The law is so late on this! France is the only country with enough balls to defy the rights of men like this! Yes! Finally! ffs pls

Oh no, I can't whistle and catcall at women on the streets of Paris. Whatever shall I do?

This is the government that wants to "ban fake news", regardless of how unenforceable and abusable that is. They don't really care about the issue of legislating with subjective considerations.

Really, my issue with this is the equating of being a jerk/douchebag/etc. with harassment. I get that people don't want to be whistled at, but are you really being harrassed? It doesn't seem like it to me. There are TONS of things that are annoying, mean, etc., but are totally legal. It seems we've passed into a space where absolutely anything unwanted that also happens to be sexual in nature is now some sort of sexual harassment as opposed to just being socially unnacceptable.

So what happens if a women wolf whistles a man, is it legal or ilegal under this law?

Well if you bothered to read, you'd see that yes. The law covers them as well.

No. This stuff is absolutely harassment. It's really frightening to be alone and then to be whisteled at/be told how much someone wants to fuck you when that person has a foot and a half on you.