Theresa May to oppose MPs' vote on Northern Ireland abortion law - Polidicks

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/27/theresa-may-oppose-vote-northern-ireland-abortion-law Theresa May will oppose plans to let MPs vote to liberalise Northern Ireland’s oppressive abortion laws, Downing Street has signalled. The prime minister believes that it would be wrong for Westminster to legislate on a matter that should be decided by the devolved administration in Belfast and ministers fear that imposing pro-choice laws on Northern Ireland could backfire. But May is likely to face strong pressure to allow a parliamentary vote, with her cabinet colleague Penny Mordaunt, the women and equalities minister, saying at the weekend that the hope for change in Northern Ireland “must be met” amid calls for the region to have a referendum. The landslide vote in favour of liberalising abortion laws in the Irish Republic has put the spotlight on Northern Ireland, which will be the only place in Britain and Ireland where abortion is illegal in most circumstances. The 1967 Abortion Act was never extended to the region and abortion is only allowed if the life or mental health of the mother is at risk. A Downing Street source said on Sunday May believed abortion reform was “an issue for Northern Ireland” and that the problem highlighted the need for the restoration of the power-sharing executive at Stormont, which has been in abeyance since it collapsed in January last year. Rory Stewart, a justice minister, went further, telling the BBC’s Sunday Politics that it would be counterproductive for Westminster to legislate on this the matter. “It isn’t the job – and it would be very, very dangerous – for British politicians to be seen to be telling people in Northern Ireland how to vote,” Stewart said. He said the UK government was acting as a “caretaker” administration in the absence of a Stormont executive and “that must not be used to make fundamental constitutional, ethical changes on behalf of the people in Northern Ireland”.

"Will of the people," eh, May? Rory Stewart, a justice minister, went further, telling the BBC’s Sunday Politics that it would be counterproductive for Westminster to legislate on this the matter. “It isn’t the job – and it would be very, very dangerous – for British politicians to be seen to be telling people in Northern Ireland how to vote,” Stewart said. Yeah they try and do that everywhere in the UK instead.

Saying very very makes you sound dumb, just say it could be dangerous, saying very very dangerous to convey any more danger just makes you sound like a child who doesn't understand basic English.

There's some context needed on the 'very, very dangerous' to be fair. Self-government from Stormont House was another of the tenets of the Good Friday Agreement and a key part of peace in NI. May has already threatened to invalidate the GFA by first offering the DUP a large sum of money to become a key part of the UK Government, at the same time causing an immovable roadblock to the breaking of the current deadlock in Stormont (NI currently has no devolved administration because nobody can form a functional majority), and has since pushed aside the unsolvable issue of a closed border with the EU in Northern Ireland, which would cause the border area of both countries to be plunged into poverty and disarray and inevitably lead to a spread of 'Troubles'. I hate to agree with the Tories but if anything culturally sensitive needs to changed in that melting pot, it needs to be seen to be changed by the Northern Irish, not the British, government. That May or any of her advisers is showing awareness of the situation or the GFA confuses me as she's conventiently ignored it since 2016.

If the troubles ever resummed, I hope the fingers are pointed at May

I don't understand how unionists in the north are so adamantly British yet still want to deny the basic right that every other section of the united kingdom has. It's like they want their cake and eat it, if they love the united kingdom so much then they should be forced to accept the common laws of it. Can't believe this is even an issue. NI ain't had a government in months. Even if there was a government and somehow the vote for abortion passed the DUP would just abuse the petition of concern again to block the bill like what they did when gay marriage passed. It's gotten to the point where NI legitimately can't be left to itself, the UK and ROI need to step in and really push for change in how the local government is structured because it's gotten to the point where it won't go back to what it was like.

Cause the DUP was formed by Ian paisley who also formed the free Presbyterian church of ulster, many members of the DUP are also members of the church and the orange order.

It's up to the NI parties to sort this out. Unfortunately they can't even sort out a functioning government at the moment so there's not much hope

Yeah, what I mean is that many DUP act more "British" than the hardline English themselves. They're completely fanatical and in denial of any of their Irish heritage to such an extent that they despise Irish culture. But then they also disagree with ethical rights that the English themselves agree with. It makes no sense, you'd think if they love the united kingdom and suck the prime minister's ass then they'd be eager to align themselves with British law more often.

The DUP act more "British" in order to win over the ulster loyalist anti-sinn fein/Irish republican voter base while also rejecting laws such as gay marriage and abortion in order to win over the religious fundamentalists. A lot of the ulster loyalist voters don't oppose gay marriage, but the DUP take a very hard line stance towards Sinn-Fein, many vote DUP just to oppose them and then many Irish nationalists vote Sinn-Fein just oppose the DUP.

She knows that any vote in the Commons would go against her, triggering a motion of no confidence and a leadership struggle which she is not equipped to win, and may well cost the tories the next election. that will happen soon, and I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't last until 2022.

Bit of a weird comment. The majority of us in the Unionist community are descended from either Scots or English settlers, so there is no association with being Irish. TMay's right that the British institutions shouldn't be involved in this decision. It would be an encroachment upon our devolved institutions, which would antagonise the Irish Nationalists especially. The alliance between the Tories and the DUP is already a controversial arrangement. I suppose from a political standpoint, the DUP will need a bit of inner reflection as to how they're representing Unionists. They're pro-Brexit, which isn't representative of the Unionist community that I live in - abortion rights might be another matter where the DUP will alienate Unionists depending on what the Unionist stance on abortion rights is. As far as holding a referendum, I think it would be a healthy exercise. It's pretty abhorrent that women here have to travel to Britain to have an abortion. At the same time, I don't like the idea of idea of unborn children being disposable. In cases of rape, incest or fatal foetal abnormalities, sure - the quality of life of the child is going to be poor; but there's plenty of options available that prevent pregnancy in the first place. I put a lot of the responsibility on men for that. Currently, we only allow the procedure if the woman's life is at risk. I think allowing it for the previously mentioned circumstances is necessary.

A lot of them don't even believe in fucking dinosaurs, which is pretty ridiculous. The DUP are a total joke and always have been.

So if Scottland decides not to brexit then Westminster will abide by that decision and not override it because its not their place to legislate over that right? in the world where parties of moral values stick to their values.

there is no way in hell that this government will even see 2022 at the rate its going

The Ulster plantation was hundreds of years ago. Your ancestors mixed in with the native Irish living in ulster, every family in northern Ireland undeniably has some Irish roots. The land itself is filled with Irish history and culture, just because settlers came in a few hundred years ago doesn't erase all of that. I honestly don't mind what people here want to identify as, but the honest fact is the fast majority of the world just doesn't care or understand and thinks we re all Irish or Northern Irish.

I don't agree. There wouldn't be the polarised cultural division we have today without a distinction between the two groups. Sure, there was intermarriage, but it hasn't created a nebulous society of strictly "Northern Irish" people of mixed ancestral background. I think the current Assembly that's divided between the two extreme political parties of both communities epitomises that divide. If Unionists identified with Irish culture then you wouldn't see such a polarisation. I don't think you should trivialise the social and political implications of introducing an Irish language act, or an Ulster-Scots language act, for that matter. English serves as the majority understood language - it goes beyond just a lingua franca. Introduce Irish and Ulster-Scots into education and you'll have what happens with language choices in schools today - students will choose the language they want to study. I'd wager that the majority will go with the language that their cultural background associates with. Then you end up with two communities that aren't just divided by ethnicity or culture, you add a language barrier into the equation as well. Only 3.7% of the population is fluent in Irish and only 0.9% in Ulster-Scots. It's not like language acts for either are facilitating the majority of the population. There should be some support for the purposes of historiography, but I don't think either language should be given any more provisions than the study of Latin. I don't want to see Irish or Ulster-Scots street signs. Whose language gets to go on top of the sign? That's sure to be a point of contention.

I can see where you're coming from, but I still think it's important to give legal status to protect Irish culture in the north. Considering how it has been so heavily discriminated against in northern Ireland's history if unionists were more willing to acknowledge and allow it then there would be more good faith between the communities. I wouldn't even mind an independent Ulster scotts type act if that's what it took. Ban all flags and have both languages on major street signs and that would help merge communities abit. PSNI need to crack down heavily on paramilitaries too, far too lenient at the moment. Like when those Catholic familes were driven out of ravenhill by the UVF and the police or unionist politicians did nothing. Anyway this is getting abit off topic, but leaving any of these issues to local government is useless. DUP are religious unionist fanatics, they'll oppose anything that isn't essentially the status quo. So any laws that improve NI be it ethically or socially will never pass.