I know like i'm going to sound like a classic Trump supporter but...
France has the largest number of muslims in Western Europe. They are not strict enough on their immigration and vetting and are letting people who do not want to assimilate with western culture; live in the country. I'm not being racist but that population has a record for people who hate the west.
so why do other countries with higher msulim populations not have these problems?
Counties with higher populations do have even worse problems (Syria, Iraq, Turkey, etc.) and they are in the east. Western countries such as France and Sweden who have a large muslim population for being western are experiencing more terrorism than ever. How do you not see a connection?
"How do you not see the connection?"
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/109900/c746373f-2a27-4369-9df1-407a0cddd2e8/image.png
I am not going to say that terrorism isnt a problem. It is. And islamist terrorism certainly makes up a large portion of attacks(though technically, extreme right wing terrorism takes the honor of the number one cause of terrorism).
let me make a few points though
A very large amount of terrorism is home grown. A lot of terrorism can be attributed to radicalization online and through other means. A lot of those people are citizens of their respective countries already when it happens. changing immigration laws will do nothing to curb them.
changing the fight from "us vs terrorists" to "us vs muslims" will end badly. While I do understand limits for the number of refugees/immigrants you can take in (for practical and sustainability reasons), you should be careful its never to be "against dem muslims." Remember, radicalization is hell of a drug, ISIS and other groups try to tell people that the world is against them and other muslims and that they need to "fight back." You ever wonder why politicians tend to be careful when speaking about the subject? they dont want to give ISIS free propaganda. Along this line, it wouldnt help us to pit ourselves against the muslim community in general. some of the best programs for catching would be terrorists were law agencies working with mosques to catch any radicals before they actually do something. If we shun out all of the other muslims who would be willing to help us, we lose out on this incredible source of information.
In this article, the "terrorist" is described as some crazy single lady. I think its possible that this woman needed physiological help but ended up stumbling on ISIS propaganda online instead. I shouldnt have to say how broken our mental healthcare system is.
So what would be a better solution?
Try to limit the spread of propaganda online. I understand this may be a bit controversial, but I do believe that we should do more to make sure ISIS recruitment ads cant stick around so easily. I understand some of these act as FBI honeypots though, so I am not qualified to say at what point we need to act.
Work closer to the muslim community. a lot of would be terrorists send off a lot of warning signs to their peers, with all their crazy talk. while we already work to some extent with mosques to catch these people, we need to go further. A lot of people are afraid to report their radical peers due to fear of retribution. This needs to be addressed, and also we need to make sure the FBI and such actually follow through on reports. There were plenty of incidents were terrorists were on the FBI watch list the entire time.
kick out specific people who promote radicalization. There are some "mosques," often set up by foreign governments, that really only serve to radicalize people. We dont need those, chase them out.
You're acting like this is a problem because of a successful internet recruitment program. While it increases recruitment slightly, that's not the cause. Terrorism has been around forever but some countries with liberal border policies are letting in large numbers of people from the eastern world who the majority are not terrorists but there is still a good amount to where attacks are happening frequently. The majority of the attacks are from foreigners, not domestic citizens. Saying that citizens are being radicalized because of the internet or government sponsored mosques is the cause is just false.
Of course its not only the internet or only foreign mosques, I was just giving specific examples with specific solutions.
I am not sure why you seem to think that I am against vetting incoming immigrants. I am all for it. my point is is that terrorism is an idea. it will never be expunged through soley military means or through filtering. the only way to kill it for certain is to remove its reason for that Idea's existence, or its perceived reason of existence.
Personally, I think the best way to keep people who mean us harm away is to vet/keep them out, attempt to slow/stop the spread of radical ideologies (either through the internet or through person), and set up honeypots to catch the rest. And of course other methods that are based in truth and have demonstrated to work are welcome by me.
And let me be honest about my hesitation to "include more filtering" to the borders. While I believe that if done properly, it would be a great idea, the sad truth is a lot of the politicians on stage right now arent pushing for it for everyones safety, but just the appease their own or their base's racial prejudices against muslims/hispanics/whatever.
And then you have the uber liberal parties which, in retaliation to all this, just stick their heads in the ground, ignore everything, and we wind up with a massive case of abuse of children.
.Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I will, however, be a bit of a stickler about this claim
The majority of the attacks are from foreigners, not domestic citizens
Its just not true
This thread is about the attacks in France, not the United States. The US has had tighter regulation on immigration, especially from middle east countries since 9/11. I'm saying the reason why France is being so heavily targeted currently is because of their weak immigration system.
aye, fair enough
How many terrorist attacks have you heard of from Sweden? While it's not untrue that exactly 1 terrorist attack is an increase in 100% from our usual yearly 0, that's still 1 compared to the 5-7 something that france has had yearly for the past two years.
The real answer is that ISIS actually has a bone to pick with france, who holds heavy military presence + aids the armies working against them. Sweden doesn't. In fact, the one terrorist we had (who was uzbeki) had apparently been talking to some ISIS coordinator in chechnya, stating that he doesn't feel like we deserve this because we are not evil like other nations etc. The coordinator seemingly persuaded him anyway.
Lol, what are you on about? We've had one attack here. One. Sure, one too many but still only one. Are you going to start rambling about no-go zones and the secret islamic caliphate ruling Sweden as well?
Then there's France. They come under attack because 1) they have fought more or less every islamic terror group there is, from Boko Haram, Al-Qaida, Al-Shabaab to ISIS. They don't fucking mess around. France is also known for pissing off conservative muslims and radical islamists alike through stuff like the ban on burqa/niqab.
Ontop of that you Charlie Hebdo and boy, they didn't hold back with their criticising which ultimately lead to the first of many attacks when terrorists started targeting France.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.