• Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Sakurai's Final Smash?
    30 replies, posted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmkVvhIS5VQ
Didn't he/they said the same thing with Brawl and Smash 4? If this really Is his Final Smash, what a way to leave, making the impossible possible yet again.
He did, then Iwata got into contact with him in both occasions and asked him to be director again; and, if I'm understanding this correct, shortly before Iwata's death he asked for Sakurai to do this one.
I interpreted it as the opposite; it was instead Sakurai's own idea to pay tribute to what he thought Iwata would've wanted, or alternatively, something of a posthumous Swan Song dedicated to him.
On the topic of Melee SSBM is overrated. I get that it has all the tech it needs to be competitive for EVO and such, but seeing it so frequently at comp scenes makes it tiring to see. Honestly Sm4sh is far better imo because it's slow enough for me to know what to do and better mechanics. Plus Melee's too fast for me so .
[angry mob of comps in T-minus 10 seconds]
IMO this is why Ultimate is gonna kill Melee. It has the fast pace movement and techs that melee has but without the bullshit.
i dunno if overrated is the word here. it's just a different flavor of the game; i think melee could be considered the better game because it's faster and has more depth. bringing back dash dancing and directional air dodge, as well as speeding up the game a hair, will probably make smash ultimate my favorite though.
That's fine, it's just that for me I'm sick and tired of seeing nothing but competitive Melee. I do know that competitive Sm4sh exists, but it's kinda small afaik when compared to Melee. I just wanna stop seeing it so much once SSBU comes out.
I tried playing Melee the other day, and I hated how clunky and heavy it felt. I guess that’s why competitive likes it though.
That never happens here and it's getting annoying that you keep saying this shit. Every time I see someone bring up competitive Smash you always show up and either off hand bash it or say that the evil Melee demons are gonna come out of the woodwork and devour our children. I can totally understand not liking competitive Smash but this is almost like you're trying to egg people on. That being said, I don't play Melee at all but I've watched some tournaments and know a lot of people who do. Most of the thoughts that I got from them about Ultimate basically boiled down to "I get that another Melee won't happen, so..." followed by whether or not they'll either switch to Ultimate due to the more comp-friendly mechanics or die with Melee. A lot more Melee people than I expected actually want to give Ultimate a chance, so honestly I can see a shift happen, at the very very least just initially. This idea that every Melee fan is some dumb brick wall completely resistant to change is stupid. Some are, but that is not a majority.
Melee will never die. To many the game is perfect, and flaws such as IC's broken combo system, Fox's ludicrous moves like shine and up smash, and the tech that require inhuman amounts of speed and precision are what makes it perfect. Even if a Melee HD gets released, a large portion community will ignore it the second they see that shine comes out on frame 2 instead of frame 1.
For the most part, it has to do with movement. Brawl and onward have properties that are purposely designed to inhibit mobility, which is important in platforming. They're not immediately obvious things unless you actively look out for them, but they include stuff like losing running momentum when you jump, which players focused on newer Smashes also cite as a complaint, since this is contrarian to almost all platformers out there, except for the Kirby series, which not-so-coincidentally is developed by the same director. While this works fine in a series where the runspeed is slow and the character acts like a balloon in the air, it feels wrong for characters that can move quickly like Captain Falcon or Sonic. Running and sliding from 64 to 4 has also been really clunky and messy, and is one of the main reasons DACUS and wavedashing were popular, as they allowed you to act sooner instead of just sloshing forward like a penguin on petroleum. Unlike the inexplicable jump momentum change introduced in Brawl, the developers actually bothered to fix this in SSBU, making it possible to do almost all grounded offense actions out of run, which makes the game feel a lot smoother and gives more freedom to the player. Give the community the ability to have freeform combos and satisfying movement, and they will come. I can't say that SSBU will be the game that does it, but you can definitely unify the ideaologies behind what makes 64 and Melee fun with what makes Brawl and SSB4 fun. Project M is a solid example of something that for a good while attracted both the Melee and Brawl communities together and even was the most popular Smash in comp for a short while before Nintendo strategically sponsored tournaments to limit it's presence. If a bunch of modders using their free time without the source code can unite a split community, then the company itself surely can if they try to. In that regard, SSB Ultimate actually excites me because I feel like it improve on a lot of the problems that Brawl and SSB4 have while still being user-friendly.
Force of habit, sorry.
No game is better than any other game. They all have their merits and weaknesses. Except PM. That game is perfect.
It's not surprising, Melee was where this all started. Melee vs. Brawl may be the "big" conflict, but it was only born out of the schism forming among Smash players before Brawl even came out. Comp Melee vs. Casual Melee; Melee being the latest game at the time and both camps were even hoping that the upcoming game would validate their side over the other, and when the casual camp got their way on that, they became the Brawl camp while comps stuck to Melee. But the bad blood was already forming as far back as the early 2000s. We're talking about grudges that go back for nearly two decades.
Do you have any evidence for this?
In the form of one single document that I can whip out and say "here, look"? Admittedly, no. But regardless, Akuji is right and I ought to not derail the thread any more than I have. If you really wanna continue we can do it in the Smash megathread, although I imagine that everyone - including myself - is tired of that by now. Again, it was out of force of habit; let's just leave it there.
If anything, I'm tired of seeing Melee at EVO as well. There's only so many times you can watch a good Fox or Falco on the screen before your mind becomes numb to it, and that's the majority of the top matches unless you get a hype ass Captain Falcon in there. In a way, I'm kind of glad that the tournament organizers for EVO are debating on dropping Melee and Wii U next year just for Ultimate. I'm sure that may be a difficulty decision, because Melee still does bring in a lot of viewers, but honestly, I feel like Melee has had its time in the spotlight. Sadly, I doubt a lot of Melee players will move over. They'll probably give it a chance before calling it "shit" because it isn't exactly like Melee. And please people, don't take this the wrong way. I absolutely adore Melee as a game. I got the game the year it launched and have so many good memories concerning it. Think of it like "too much of a good thing can be a bad thing", and you'll understand where I'm coming from.
You're... kidding, right? That's the exact problem with watching Melee.
If you have a very shallow understanding of the game and just look at it from the surface, sure. But if you know both games you know that Melee has more depth than any of the other games. Smash 4's matches may have more characters viable but instead you get extremely samey combos and playstyles. Just look at how everyone plays Mario with downthrow-uptilt combos, or Falcon dash-grab downthrow up air combos. It's always the same thing to an extent. I mean I know you hate melee and it's players more than anyone else, but at least try to look at the game and the way it's played if you are going to hate it so much.
Oh, for... Cool your jets guys, I don't hate Melee. Are you kidding? Melee was my adolescence.
You know that Melee has had a passionate and dedicated playerbase even before EVO, right? Melee getting removed from EVO won't kill the scene or force anyone to move over, nothing short of destroying Melee in the same way PM was would accomplish that, and PM being destroyed was only because of legal issues. Melee scene's too strong. Not to mention Melee and Ultimate are two different games with completely different metas and mechanics. It's silly to think that people will ever permanently migrate from one game they're dedicated to to a completely different one.
Anyone who would conflate Melee in general with comp Melee, sure, but there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding between us in all of this: Super Smash Bros. Melee the video game isn't necessarily the "Melee" as is commonly referred to nowadays. To try to get across what I mean, I'll use the full titles here (well, their abbreviations) refer to the actual video games themselves, agnostic of how they've been perceived or affected by the players. As I said, everyone who's had an online presence in the Smash playerbase for long enough has been in some sort of "Melee camp" once; that's just by virtue of SSBM being the flagship game of the series for seven years. The casual Melee camp just later became the Brawl camp, but just because the comp side became the only Melee camp once SSBB hit doesn't mean that casuals had to start hating SSBM itself. I have zero problem with any actual game in the series; far from it, as I've thoroughly enjoyed and got hundreds of hours out of each one. They've all been integral into making the Smash series into what it is today, none more or less than any other (after all, the most important color of any rainbow is every color). Will I piss and moan about Melee? Sure. Will I piss and moan about SSBM? No. Any problem I've had has never been about the games, it's been everything around them - the culture, the philosophy - and what they become once in the players' hands; I don't have to pay attention to any of that to just sit down and enjoy the games themselves. That's why I will reject PM, because it was born entirely out of all that, whereas the real Smash games are just innocuous games on an objective level. I mean, Smash is about Nintendo. Whereas those guys have always wanted Smash to be about them. So it's not that my being petulant is "nothing personal", it's that it's solely personal*. I don't hate SSBM itself at all. *(And no, not towards anyone on Facepunch, this is from years ago.)
Once again, do you have any evidence of this? You've already made a claim like this in the thread once and didn't provide any evidence and did not revise your statement. Even if it was true that PM was created because of this, its very close-minded to reject a game for this reason.
all of that could have been condensed to "I like the game but I don't like the competitive scene" and I would have instantly known what you mean. Personally I love the gameplay and tech options of Melee (not really a fan of the culture) so all of the announced changes in Ultimate are very welcome, even the kinda-wavedashing.
It's a bit broader than just disliking the competitive scene, but I digress. Can we please move this to the main Smash thread if you wanna keep talking about this? I really don't wanna clog up this thread any longer.
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