• Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, Eric Weinstein, and Dave Rubin
    21 replies, posted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PagNM_oxssE&t
Oh god it's the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
It's a shame that this got rated dumb quite quickly based on the assumption that this would be a SJW circlejerk. I don't care that it got rated dumb, I just wish that I could understand where the criticism stands when this is much more of a discussion on a variety of topics with people who disagree and are on various points on the political spectrum.
Its an hour long video of four people basically no-one on facepunch likes. It'll go down as well as a bull in a china shop. Doesn't take a genius to guess that
You're in the wrong forum for this type of discourse, this forum is literally just a huge safespace with a shitty design. I suggest you seek a better community, good luck.
I understand you want a moderate discussion (which, believe it or not, this forum is open too albeit for a few melodramatic people), but I honestly believe Peterson and the like are nothing more than professional bullshit artists who, more or less, are given way more credit for their questionable views on society than they actually deserve. A few decent ideas but just a terrible agenda in general (in my opinion).
So don't click on the thread if you anticipate something you don't like? This is a completely reasonable conversation and I'm sharing because I'm some people will appreciate it. I'm fully willing to concede that there are valid reasons to not like these people but to act like these people are completely unpalatable for society (like Milo Yiannopoulous) is just disingenuous.
All they're missing is Alex Jones and a Youtube atheist.
The only person out of these 4 I like is Weinstein, Shapiro is a weird super conservative, Peterson is a poorly spoken man who constantly suffers from foot in mouth syndrome and intentional vagueness and Rubin is a completely deluded “comedian”. Im not listening to an hour of them talking without having a big glass of something alcoholic
are they really on various points of the political spectrum? i wasn't gonna comment since i didn't watch the video, but you've come to terms with people doing that pretty quickly, it looks like. anyway, the main criticism i've seen levied against rubin and peterson are that they hide where they really stand, and fall on partisan lines more than they'd like to admit. when you say their viewpoints are varied, are you going by what positions they claim to have? or by actual disagreements in the video?
The video isn't just about Rubin and Peterson but I absolutely understand your criticism. And I going by both - they claim to have different positions and have discussions upon this topics where they disagree. Rubin is being a cheerleader as usual, but there is interesting conversation to be had with Peterson, Weinstein, and Shapiro given that they come from different backgrounds, studies, and values. It's hard for me to say that they are closeting their views because I can't read their minds but it is clear that are ideological conflicts among them but what they have is a common respect for each others intelligence and perspective.
I watched it. There was a portion of circle jerk in the beginning, but they actually got into some interesting conversations. Eric Weinstein is actually a pretty left wing sort of guy, definitely a very intelligent man. Rubin is pretty much Libertarian aka fiscally conservative but socially liberal(Abortion, gay marriage, etc...), Ben Shapiro is pretty much more socially conservative libertarian, and Peterson is a weird in between. I know Peterson believes in Universal Health Care, Social Rights, but is very pro free speech/anti nanny state. I wouldn't say I agreed with everything that was discussed because I'm pretty left leaning, but I did really enjoy the talk.
I'm 7 minutes in and sorry but, so far, it's circlejerky as fuck. Fair enough if you think I had a bias going in, but they won't stop talking about how great they are for disagreeing so much. I have yet to see any of them challenge one another on anything, and this is more like a series of monologues than a debate, which is what I expected since the diverse politics are what you singled out. Does this get any better? Will Peterson ever stop making 5 minute rants out of things that could've been properly conveyed in a single sentence?
I'm glad people are lightening up to just hearing these guys speak, a lot of times these threads turn into garbage immediately. I think it's important to hear other viewpoints even if you disagree, and after hearing Eric, Ben and Jordan on Joe Rogan it opened my eyes to at least their angles. Podcasts/these kinds of roundtable discussions are really cool and if you liked this I'd definitely suggest their respective episodes on Rogan's podcast.
Eric Weinstein definitely gets into arguments after the circle jerky part. Honestly I thought part was dumb too. I blame Dave Rubin, he has this really self important monologue he drills all the time. If you noticed he started the circle jerk by saying "SO WHAT IS IT YOU THINK ABOUT US BOIZ" So cringey.
I have lost a lot of respect for his lack of self awareness and being so obsessed with being in the limelight as one of the "provocateurs of the century". At the end of the day he's just there to moderate discussion and nothing more but he has degraded in even doing that. There's a clear contrast between his earlier Rubin Report interviews to the content he posts now. He is less intellectually curious and more obsessed with the "intellectual dark web" he joined.
Eric's pretty cool tbh
Alright, I watched 26 minutes of it A good amount of Shapiro's points go into 'humble brag' territory. His bit at 7:15 starts off that way too, but then goes into genuine humility which I liked a lot. He comments, right at the start, that "Bill Maher is secretly one of us". I get that he doesn't mean this like the schemings of a shadowy cabal, but still, this attitude of "claiming" celebrities is annoying, all too common, and often presumptuous in how even the vaguest indication that someone empathizes with the right is deemed enough. Dave Rubin remains a pushover in my view. His mention of how "the left seems to only be talking among themselves" gives a fair bit of perspective, though it's ironic given the status they keep giving themselves of a niche group of uniquely enlightened people. Eric is the one who tries the hardest to get an actual conversation of substance going. He is the first to go from "let's reminisce about that one time we disagreed" to actually disagreeing with the group. This wasn't enough time to learn enough of his points and say whether or not I like the guy, but he still comes off as the most principled. Jordan Peterson is very good at finding pragmatic ways to motivate people, I'll give him that, but why won't he stop repeating himself? This is maddening, his rants loop around so much. I find that the less attention I'm paying to him, the more enjoyable he is to listen to. Big words, charming prose, but so little substance that I can't tell whether Peterson earnestly found his way into this style, and simply lacks the awareness to address it, or if it's a conscious, manipulative attempt at passing off simple arguments as more than they really are. At 15:15, Peterson goes on a rant about how criticizing Trump should be avoided because it's uninteresting. We're supposed to base where we stand, and what we speak out against, on entertainment value? What about a set of principles? I'll choose the latter. He follows it up by saying that "by going after Trump you're going after his supporters" and again, that's bizarre to me. It goes without saying that elected officials... had to be elected. Every politician has voters and supporters, this is weak reasoning. I don't enjoy being predictable, but I'd be dishonest if I shied away from my opinion just because I know it's the popular one. Overall, this comes off as a circlejerk that spends way too much time vehemently agreeing with each other over how little they circlejerk. I appreciate the perspective the video gives, but it reeks of arrogance and cluelessness, and I would not spend another minute on it, let alone another 26. And as a last note, here's Maher clarifying his recession argument https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joxYLYD5eoQ
Dave Rubin complains that the left has gone off the deep end but takes money from the koch brothers
You can argue about the nuances of each persons idelogically stance and say that they aren't at all similar because one believes in universal healthcare and the other doesn't but the fact of the matter is that panel of people wherein three of them agree on practically everything they actually talk about, with the fourth one being ostensibly the furthest "left" in the group. I don't think it's a coincidence at all that Eric was the only one seemingly disagreeing with anyone else, and also the only one to appear to use data to back up his points.
Where are these mythical 'better communities'?
Dont worry about the dumb ratings man, its a big community and not the safe space certain people want it to be, good chance if you post something you find interesting on here there will be others that do too, sure people will come in here and attempt to rain on your parade but you don't have to engage if you don't want, just talk to the people who want to talk and not just shout down. Ill give the video a watch.
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