I need some advice for a new daily driver hot hatch, European market.
My current work car is a VW Up! which is actually a pretty nifty car for the cities and I like the way it drives, it’s just so slow. Private car is a 2008 Suzuki Swift 1.5 vvt which is fine but I don’t really like the way it drives and handles(I bought it from family for cheap). It also has a sticky steering wheel.
So yeah, I am looking for a hot hatch that drives great. Doesn’t even have to be a super fast car, just one that has good handling and some power. A “sensible” car that also gives you a smile on your face everyone you jump in.
Eyeing a a few cars at the moment, which are the Clio RS4, sixth gen Ford Fiesta ST or maybe a Fiat Punto Evo.(gt-line Peugeot 208 could possibly also be a candidate)
Fuel economy is important. I would like to have something that’s very fun to drive but also somewhat fuel efficient when I just need to go somewhere and not have to stop for gas every 200kms. I don’t plan on driving it every day of the week, mostly few times during the week plus weekends and holidays.
Any experiences/tips in this segment? Other car suggestions are of course also welcome
Have you thought about a fifth gen Fiesta ST? I mean yeah it’s a 2.0L naturally aspirated and requires premium fuel, so it’s hardly the cheapest to run. But it’s just so pure - 5 speed manual, no crazy turbochargers nor direct fuel injection, not even VVT. It’s a properly old school hot hatch. I almost bought one myself after test driving one - the killer for me was no cruise control (I do plenty of motorway driving).
It just looks so adorable too. Pictured is the ‘XR4’ model; it’s an ST, but Ford Australia thought us uncultured bogans would prefer that specific badge more than an ST badge.
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/226043/c815647e-070e-4be8-817b-80a8e8193e94/1319AC03-C9A2-48DA-8AC9-97A82A82F64A.jpeg
Golf GTI is the standard answer. Golf mk2 GTI especially,
Peugeot 205/306 GTIs are nice as hell, if I could find one i'd definitely buy one.
Fiesta ST like above is pretty good.
Mazdaspeed 3 is nice
Personally I’m not really interested in the Golf GTI’s, the newest ones are pretty nice but damn expensive, the older ones are classics but I am searching for something a bit more modern. Like I said, I need a hatch that’s practical and fun, instead of only fun. I agree that they are fun cars to drive. The Mazda is pretty hard to find here sadly. Still think the Fiesta ST would be a nice bet but then again, people are very positive about the Clio as well
Volvo C30 T5 or 2.4i. Same thing as a Mk2 focus ST
Lupo GTIs are neat, I'm pretty sure you will find many around Europe. You can also import them from Japan.
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/774/3de43428-f54a-4aa3-baa7-119d0be7d423/$_86.JPG
Aesthetically though, it’s not really what I am interested in. Lots of young people who’ve just gotten their license drive these sort of cars and I’d like something a little bit more mature. Don’t know if that sounds pretentious haha
Without a budget I'm going to suggest a 2018 Golf R or an Golf R32 with the VR6, either a 4banger turbo or a throaty W6 that can have a turbo slapped to it later on down the line (or done already, knowing Europe you won't have any problems sourcing ANY of these).
My buddy has a focus st, he loves it
I'm going to suggest a bit of a curveball, a original Skoda Fabia VRS.
It's not the fastest car in the world, but it's incredibly pratical (On a recent 200mile round trip to the airport taking my gf with 3 very heavy bags, I got an average MPG of 75 (calculated by fuel usage on tank fill over distance, trip computer read 81)).
It handles reasonbly well and can be improved drastically by adding a rear antiroll bar.
The reason I suggest it is while it is not a from-the-light drag racer, it has a not inconsiderable torque figuire and feeling the huge surge of power when the revs hit 1900 and the turbo comes in makes me smile every time I drive it. You can get an extra 40 or so HP out of it with a mild remap (not had one done on mine though) and this will give you even more punch without having to worry about the stock clutch. Any higher remap wil need consideration of an uprated clutch.
It's no moden hot hatch and something new will leave it for dead in both the curves and straights, but as it's a traditional turbo car and unashamedly so, it's really fun learning how to manage your gears to keep the turbo spinning so when you boot it after a corner you get that wonderful PD torque coming in and you power out.
It's certainly not a caar for everyone, and they are getting on a bit and you may have difculty finding one with a reasonable number of miles on, but I think you should at least add it to the runnings. Arguably one of the earlier deployment of a diesel engine in a "perfirmance" model and Skoda's balls not offering a petrol counterpart was nice to see.
Here is mine:
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/109713/0c214009-afe6-4ab5-807d-b61d51814201/20180510_181903.jpg
I'd highly suggest older GTIs, they're abundant in Europe. Especially the older Swift GTI (1989-1995). but there are also polos and golfs which are always fun. I would never suggest a french car
For the sake of maintenance you'll want to go down the route of either Ford or VAG Group from the mid 2000s. A MK5 Golf GTI is probably the best bet. Look for something with a good service history. High miles don't matter if the car has been looked after properly. If you've got a little to spend then a MK6 is also a good way to go, as are the equivalents from Seat, Skoda and Audi. As for Ford, the Fiesta ST is a good bet. The likes of the 2008-2013 Fiestas didn't really have much in the way of hot stuff, there was the S1600 which was the kind of hot one before the ST came out on the 2013 facelift model. That age of Fiesta I can vouch for, I had a remapped 1.0 Zetec S with 158 horsepower, it ran the extra power with no issues and was good on fuel and insurance.
The newer you go or the rarer the car, the more you'll pay in repairs because of higher parts and work times. The mid 2000s is a nice sweet spot because it was still perfectly possible to do a lot of mechanical work at home, but they have almost all the same features as the newer cars do like Bluetooth and cruise control, and if you don't have them, it's easy enough to retrofit (plus there's still so much aftermarket stuff available for cars from that time)
I recently got a '17 Fiesta ST and love it. There's a few things about it though: it has firm suspension which can get bad on really rough roads, the Recaro seats aren't the most comfortable if you are over maybe 5'11", and most of the power comes in at around 2500 RPM with the turbo. If you can get over all of that, it's a good car that can be really fun to drive.
While I haven't driven one myself, the GTI seems like it's more refined than the ST. The interior and ride are a bit nicer, but it's slightly slower, and (at least when new) the performance versions are a bit more expensive. I'd say test drive each if either of them sound good.
Thanks for all the answers guys! I think a Golf GTI is something that’s up there as well, but I do like the new Ford Fiesta ST, though I do feel that you have to pay quite a bit more for all the options that come standard with its competitors.
I test drove the new Nissan Micra a few weeks ago and damn, did that engine let me down. They took the boring Clio engines and put them in, what I think, is a pretty fine looking car. I think I will either go with a Focus or Fiesta ST, but a Clio RS is still something that I would like to test drive
Here's a controversial suggestion: Consider an EV if it's within your budget, maybe the new Leaf. They are pretty quick, and are a lot of fun with the instant torque (despite what some might tell you). Handling isn't bad either due to the low centre of gravity on EVs. It gives you the option to have a lead foot and waste a lot of power, or drive more slowly and save energy, and if you do a lot of mileage then the fuel savings will probably be thousands a year, you will probably find you drive a lot more because of it as well.
If you like the new Micra then the new Leaf is pretty much just a scaled up version of it, get a test drive and turn off eco mode and give it a go. It's probably not going to compare on the track to some of the other cars mentioned in this thread, but you might be able to smoke a few of them in day to day driving.
the Recaro seats ford uses are bad if you are a man, the deep bucket seats squished my legs into my balls. luckily those seats are optional
half the fucken fun of a hot hatch is playing around with the transmission and hearing the engine roaring.
you already have an up, don't they make a gti version of that? what about the 500 abarth, is that any good/affordable?
He said he was open to something sensible, with decent fuel economy so thought it was worth a mention. How important the gears and sound are is up to you, though it's not true that EVs are silent. Under heavy acceleration my Leaf makes a nice futuristic noise.
https://youtu.be/eJT8xuI_5PY
The Up! GTI version is, in my opinion, unreasonably expensive, starting at around 19K. I could get a great second hand car for that price that's a hell of a lot more specced out than the Up!. I image it's a fun ride though, just not for that price.
Also, I'm not against EV's, they are indeed a sensible choice and pretty quick, but like Araknid said, you kinda miss the feeling of the car. Speed and acceleration aren't everything and the Leaf is also a little out of my budget. Speaking of, I've never mentioned what I'd ideally like to spend. It's preferably something around 15-16K max.
Does anyone want the reward by the way? You guys have helped me quite a bit already but I can only give it to 1 person
If anyone in the UK is actually interested in what EVs sound like in reality then I'm more than happy to take them around Snake Pass in my Leaf (last gen, but I do have a new one this saturday).
VW Golf R
Subaru Hatch WRX
VW Golf GTI
Ford Focus RS
Hyundai i30N
Those would be my options in order
The MK7 is still arguably the best hot hatch out there.
I am biased tho
Anyone got any experience with the early hatch Imprezas? Found a great low mile STI for a very reasonable price, full service history and logs etc. I've always wanted one.
Alfa Romeo 147 GTA or Brera 1.75 TBI
The Hyundai i30N looks pretty damn good too.
Yeah it looks amazing, too bad it's so expensive
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