Mike Pence: The Trump administration will never abolish ICE - Polidicks

http://time.com/5332014/pence-abolish-ice-comment/ (WASHINGTON) — Vice President Mike Pence is defending federal immigration authorities charged with detaining and deporting migrants entering the country illegally, and he’s accusing Democrats of making opposition to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement the “center” of their party. In a speech at the agency’s headquarters, Pence says Democratic Sens. Kirsten Gillibrand and Elizabeth Warren and New York Mayor Bill de Blasio have called for the abolition of ICE. He says President Donald Trump “will never abolish ICE” and is calling for an end to the “spurious attacks.” Pence made his comments as the agency and the Trump administration are scrutinized for separating migrant children from their parents as they cross the U.S.-Mexico border. The policy has led to nationwide protests. Gillibrand, Warren and de Blasio are potential 2020 challengers to Trump.

Then we'll have to abolish the Trump administration.

I don't think anyone expected them to, really...

I don't think we need to abolish ICE, just reestablish their range of duties. Nobody had any issue with ICE before Trump that I know of.

"We will never abolish ICE. We will, however, abolish ice."

They did but we weren't listening before.

Nah abolish ICE. Their entire purpose is pretty scummy. We need people to handle customs inspection and immigration procedures, but enforcement as an active force is pretty dystopian imo.

Meanwhile, the administration has staffed many of the actually helpful government departments with people who support abolishing them.

Abolishing ICE is on the same terms of abolishing BATFE, it's never gonna happen, it serves a valid role, but they'll always be a bunch of scumbags.

How does this argument make any sense? "Enforcing the law is dystopian" No it isn't? It's expected of any first world country. ICE's job is enforcement of immigration and customs laws and codes. What do you propose we replace ICE with? Immigration and Customs Recommendations? "Hi yeah you've overstayed your visa and are now illegally in the United States. If you could do us a favor and either renew your visa or get out that'd be grand, thanks! Ta~" or how about instead of enforcing the law we just fine them... because, y'know, if they are OK breaking the law to stay in the country illegally they'd totally pay up a fine right? Whether you like them or not, ICE performs a vital function within the country and they are a necessary government agency. Do they need some oversight? Absolutely. What government agency doesn't? But you don't fix a problem by abolishing the agency. And god, think of their employees. What about the 20,000+ people employed by ICE? "Hey we're shutting down your agency. You've got 60 days to find another job within the federal government before you're laid off. Good luck competing with the other 20,000 people who also got this email!" Do them/their families deserve that just because they work for an agency that you dislike?

I just referred discontinued/abolished ICE than keep (and unintentionally create endless cycle of) reform it, In two-party system like herein US.

recreate a new force but with clear limits, though we did this already and we ended up with ICE

I really hate the "but it's the law" argument because the law isn't some text written by a morally just, higher being. It's made by people, the very kind of people who glare and think "bad hombres." If the law says "yes, you can and should abduct and separate families," then that sounds plenty dystopian to me.

ICE has only existed for 15 years years so if it were abolished all the various parts they were cobbled from would go back to what they were before like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Naturalization_Service

Reestablish INS and put it back into the department of labor.

atf only exists as a weak catchall for things people didn't want the FBI to police. Tobacco, firearms and alcohol are three huge lobbies and it shows on the agency and its deficiencies, like how it operates for very long stretches without a director or many appointees because the senate just flat out ignores them

Comparing BATFE to ICE is a really bizarre comparison, sure the BATFE is annoying and shoots dogs sometimes but it's not a fuckin American Gestapo.

Reminder that the ATF literally ran an organized crime ring to fund their own black budget which could be used for anything they wanted including up to and including personal use by agents.

taking too long

The ATF has, mostly through incompetence completely bungled operations in the past getting their officers, other agencies officers, and innocent citizens in the US and Mexico (and their dogs ) killed, purposely let illegally obtained weapons out onto the streets under the guise of tracking cartel members, which they then proceeded to immediately lose track of, it's employee's burned through money gained by not only tax dollars but illicit operations by using it on their employees personal whims. Annoying is an understatement. The ATF is far more than "annoying", their fuck-ups just aren't as sexy for the media. They're just a different flavor of the same shit.

The ATF will rule something is legal, then change their mind down the road and demand people turn in their formally legal property with no reimbursement, under penalty of a felony charge.

I'm aware. Still a far cry from running concentration camps.

ICE isn't running concentration camps, either. Such a stupid argument to suggest they are. Why are people intentionally strawmanning their own argument?

Just so you know mass executions don't have to be involved for something to be a concentration camp.

Am I supposed to take his as a legitimate question? Are you seriously comparing an elected position with set term limits that don't come as a surprise to a job that people expect to be there as a career? Especially comparing 1 person/position to 20,000+? Should an employee NOT expect their job to continue on into the future without the risk of losing their job? If anything, Federal jobs should be expected to be MORE stable, not LESS stable, than private corporation jobs.

I don't think "send all of the employees of ice to a ctap/ictap while the government figures out how to reorganize ice" really works as rallying call. I'm sure getting rid of ice isn't simple. Doesn't mean it shouldn't or can't be done.

A government agency is not an industry, they're not the same and you can't compare them as if they are.

If you can only compare things that are the same what is the point in comparing things at all.

Just because you can compare things doesn't mean it's valid or it works. Watch: "Tomatoes are inferior to apples because they aren't as sweet and are too gushy on the inside." A government agency isn't a company or industry. They don't operate on the same principle. They aren't geared towards profit through offered services and wares. They provide a public service by means of tax dollars, and have different concerns, designs, and machinations. Comparing ICE to Coal Mines because coal mines are "dated and irrelevant" doesn't work because ICE isn't dated and irrelevant. It's a very new agency and it's very much relevant. Again, just because you don't agree with how they're doing their job doesn't mean they aren't doing it.

If their methods were dated and irrelevant, they wouldn't work. The fact that they're pissing people off means they're working just not well. They need to be revisited and restructured but abolishing them isn't going to help anything