I was talking about this with a friend recently and actually used the recent E3 announcements as a comparison to Tennocons reaction. Just like SkillUp says, every time a major sequel or new IP was announced there was excitement, but it was reserved, and for good reasons. Companies like Activision, EA, Ubisoft, Sony, and Microsoft have burned their customers so many times that even if a game looks promising, you are always thinking about what the catch is. When Fallout 76 was announced my first thought wasn't "Holy shit a multiplayer Bethesda game I've wanted one of these since forever", it was wondering how they were going to monetize it.
Personally though I (we) don't have this same level of cynicism when it comes to DE. Warframe is a game that, despite being my most played game on Steam, one that I play in fits and starts; I'll go hard for a couple of weeks, maybe a month at most, then just sort of stop logging in because I get tired of the loop. But the developers and community representatives are amazing and you never get the sense that they look at their playerbase purely for their monetary worth as whales or minnows. They have made mistakes in the past but most of the notable ones are fixed pretty quickly, and the game itself has one of the friendliest, if not THE friendliest, free to play schemes I've seen yet.
Glad to see DE succeeding so well, they were just as important to early epic games stuff like Unreal and UT as epic was so it's nice to see them thriving
Warframe is a fun game, and it has a lot of content, but the grind to get to that content is fucking unbearable. Every time there's a trailer for some new Warframe thing all I can think is "Wow, that thing I'll never get to play looks really cool."
I asked in the Warframe thread what a good, early game way of getting platinum was (without buying it) and every single suggestion was to grind shit I hadn't even reached. And I had played the game for over 50 hours when I asked. As far as regular Warframe players were concerned I hadn't even reached the early game. I don't think I can play a game which requires than much time investment, even if the stuff you get later is the best shit ever.
Needing to wait a day to build each part of a new warframe and then another couple of days for the warframe itself pretty much killed my enthusiasm for the game. I get it, they want me to spend money, but everything is so fucking expensive and I have no idea what it's like before buying it, so I don't buy anything and have to suffer through the grind, or quit as I did recently.
Its just the fucking mastery nonsense. Got max mods and can build an lvl 80+ build but want this weapon? Too fucking bad kiddo, you have to use the other 40 shittier weapons till they max and you can throw them in the trash for their mastery points. I know why they do it, so you're pretty much forced to make shit or pay up directly, but fuck me does it get tedious.
But still, the grind is not nearly as bad as say warthunder, where you could spend months to unlock a single jet.
I can appreciate how big this game has gotten and how much of a shit they give, but I just don't see the big deal about it myself, it's not a bad game by any means, it's fun, but I don't really know what I'm doing, even when I follow objectives and shit, I'm not really invested in it.
I took a look at warframe recently, i get that its coop so you cant pay to win against other players, but a lot of the payment stuff and purcases are obvious power upgrades, many of them apparantly time limited exclusives. As i looked into it, there were several layers of this sort of thing, which exhibits the typical "obfuscate the importance of paid items until the player is invested enough to rationalize it away" that every cancerous themepark mmo ever does.
The movement plays better compared to other competing games and it seems marginally less scummy than other games but it's stil the same loops, toned down a bit, which makes me think people are ony raving about this because they've been beaten down by other devs and this one is doing it less. The "ambition" extends like two centemeters past raw sewage like destiny and it's supposed to be celebrated? This is way too much ass licking for what this actually is.
Honestly I wish a number of things were changed to make something far smoother for everyone. For one I think the exp system in both MR and individual items can be really tedious. The MR requirement is just a plain joykill for new players, resources and build time serve its purpose better already. Item slots should be achievable in a way outside of plat. Forma'd slots should be able to give a slot multiple polarities. Open world resources, like mining and fishing, should be achievable through bounties. Lastly I think there should be stuff outside of Index for farming credits.
I love the game, that's why I have laundry list of problems since I also love to see it grow beyond them. Same goes for stuff like Path of Exile.
A bit?
Remember when SU said Nier was one of the greatest things, not just games, of all time? Yeah. Pretty clear he's on the gravy train and considering that DE is the first dev to actively give him positive feedback I guess that means he needs to go all in about how wf can cure cancer and diabetes and get you laid and [insert clickbait shit here], cause that's pretty much what he's been doing.
WF has one of the best combat loops in open space/procedural navigation gaming, that's certainly an objective fact. It's responsive, the feedback is clean and smooth, animation blending and "exposition" is AAA quality, but the game is not even kind of perfect or even approaching balanced in any aspect.
What DE has is very loyal group of fans, fans whom have stuck with them when fankly a couple of times they haven't deserved it. If you think the game is grindy now, the u7 to u13 days were a korean mobile game apocalypse comparatively, and the devs haven't said sorry or yeah that was p bad here's some stuff or we learned how to not to do that by examples or whatever, in fact it's been touched on ONCE by Sheldon in noclip, and he looks all sheepish about kavat purchases, but see, through the power of castle greyskull and past twitch streams you can see a very different Sheldon before his other project fell flat on its face and failed to even survive 6 months when released into the wild, and old Sheldon was openly quite mercenary about the game and the fanbase, and "three long island ice teas ember balance topic" Scott has nothing on "hey what about platinum market pricing before noon" Sheldon.
That DNA is still present in the game and DE's policies. The frames from Nidus on have been grindy as fucking balls to get, to the point were getting a prime frame is easier than getting a regular frame. The game's power creep is very very real, and while that's not actually a negative in an mmo, eventually you have to adjust the game to fit that, and the answer has been pretty evident in the corpus since U14, and that answer is NO. No powers, no abilites, this damage thing doesn't work, this enemy launches you into the moon, this enemy stomps your face repeatedly, and Corpus went from the 90 pount weakling force easy peasy to the FUCK YOU FUN police over the last year, with very little in between. Grineer are starting to head that same direction via ghouls and nox, but they realy more on massive bursts of DoT rather than outright progression and ability denial.
The game also doesn't not even try help new players understand the remotest fuck of what's needed to progress once you get out of Darvo's store and Clem's mission, and they've literally given up trying to figure out how.
The arcing balance curve also has to support this convention, to keep players invested, the players have to "win". To win, they have to get the good stuff, and wf answer to getting the good stuff is to grind your fucking ass off and SU conveniently leaves this out of his missives, and he is suspiciously silent about the market, and as one might surmise player regulated markets make Donald Trump so hard all the orange drains from his hair into somewhere else.
The game is fun. The combat is clean and simple as fuck, with solid and super responsive feedback. Most of the tilesets are pretty solid. Most, not all. Little niggling things like your frame getting hung up on every piece of terrain still need work, faction balance needs a complete overhaul, and the grind is oh so very very real.
Tried to get back in the game as an early supporter. Took a 4 year break with 500 hours under my belt and god damn the grind got to me too bad now. Can't do it anymore.
I feel like Warframe is a game I ruined by being in the Alpha tests constantly killing grineer in their disgusting fucking ships because everytime I go back all I can feel is that I'm just running through grineer ships killing shit by using the same button combos over and over again. Also, getting back into the game after being gone for a while is borderline impossible because there's so many systems now that are so poorly explained. I feel like even if I did know what the fuck to do I still wouldn't give two shits about Warframe because it's so grindy, and repeditive, and boring.
I understand the bias but the people in the Warframe thread are a bit too forgiving of the game's flaw.
Feels a bit vindicating to see FPers outside of that thread being more critical of DE.
I think you're not looking hard enough then. I don't think any of us would say the game is perfect.
It's flawed as absolute fuck, but it's still one of my favorite game regardless.
I admire your patience.
Look if you don't like the grind, I don't blame you. But saying everyone in the Warframe thread just mindlessly accepts it and strokes off DE is just wrong. Any longtime active member in our clan could rattle off a list of grievances from the grind, to balance, to features being added and abandoned, to questionable business practices, you name it.
We're not all ignoring the games flaws, we just enjoy the game regardless. But it looks like you wanted vindication and just decided you got it.
Warframe is good fun with friends, but it is brought down hard by one of the worst new player experiences. A lot of the systems are barely skimmed over in the introductory missions and you have to go through the feature list inside your ship(which you probably don't think of doing in the first place) to read about them, and even that one doesn't have all of the info you need, so you'd have to go to the wiki to look up what some things do(but how would you look up something which you don't even know exists?).
Things like elemental effects and procs don't seem to have any explanation in the game, like why exactly corrosive is the go-to damage for high armor enemy missions, and then you start finding out of all these other weird funky mechanics in the wiki which are essential to know, but the game just doesn't tell you about them, and the few times it does, they're vague at best.
I've clocked over a thousand hours into the game, playing it on-and-off since its beta days, and while I can say that it has gone through some really good changes, it still has a massive amount of glaring issues which make it not newbie-friendly.
Paradoxically, I don't play the game much anymore due to the aforementioned issues, but I still like the devs. They just have a wholesome quality about them that runs contrary to the "shameless executive" look that most devs and publishers exude nowadays.
Yeah the new player experience is just... abysmal.
It took a long time for my brother to get into it, and he's the kind of guy that LIKES wiki diving for information.
I have to agree as someone who plays warframe with 3 other friends religiously warframe is like the ultimate game for us its a 4 player coop game that we all enjoy playing together.
And I think what doesn't help that is the fact that no one is trying to make new coop games anymore especially local coop, everyone is trying to make esports, and its a damn shame because my best memories are playing games on the couch with my friends.
Also the amount of gameplay features that were pumped and dumped into the game is so asinine. I get random shit all the time that i later find out is completely useless or was for a dumb event.
It's my second most played game at a little over 1000 hours (Dota 2 is my first, regretfully so) and while I was very lost even at the first 100 hours I managed to just truck through it with the help of some guides. Admittedly, I took advantage of a 75% coupon on plat to massively boost my progress, but I would say it was very worth it because it brought me to a point where I can now reliably have an income of plat. My absolute biggest gripe about the game are Riven Mods. I'm a bit of a hypocrite because they're my main source of profit, but they are an absolutely terrible design choice. A mod where a dice rolls up to 8 fucking times is just insane. Not only that, I truly believe that Riven Transmuters are just a slap in the face, especially considering it takes up space on the loot table for Tridolons. As for the criticisms about the recently released frames being a nightmare to farm, I can say I've been considerably lucky and haven't really had much of an issue. I know that's not a counter argument in the slightest, but I personally haven't had more difficulty farming them than, say, Equinox.
I think the lore is really interesting and the music is great. It blows the vast majority of AAA titles out of the water. This one is one of my favorites, and it's only just an ambient song for a tileset. It's super good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwTJxmwsCGM
Warframe is one of those games I love and hate at the same time. There's a lot of awesome stuff in it, but a lot of that stuff is also burried under insane grind or mechanics that arent well thought out or implemented. The base gameplay is great, the modding system means you make weapons do different things if you want them too, and the warframes themselves are a lot of fun to play. And while for the most part I wouldn't say the grind isn't too terrible in some areas, in others it's downright awful. New Warframes usually are super annoying to farm for and tend to have one part with a super low drop rate so you'll get the other 2 just fine then spend ages on that last part just so you can make the damn thing. Mods are the same way, most of them are really easy to get, then you'll have ones like Condition Overloard which only drop from one enemy on one planet, who has a 4% chance to drop a mod, then a .02% for that mod to be CO and it just gets ridiculous. Stuff like CO is an extreme case and it doesn't represent what a majority of the farm is, but I can't blame people who get turned off from the game because of stuff like that. That being said, despite it's flaws I still find it to be a really fun and enjoyable game most of the time, and I don't regret the three thousand or so hours I've poured into this game.
this is the biggest reason i can't really get into warframe.
i enjoy the stuff goin on but it takes a long time to do any of it.
say what you want about similar games like destiny and division, but they at least get me to the fun part without making me spend 30 hours getting there
The thing about warframe is that it's designed for players who have stuck with the game.
I started playing this game right when it went open beta and at that time there were a few warframes, weapons, and levels and it was easy to run through the content with all the players. Towards when I stopped playing(right as they added the home ship and kubrows) everyone was running T3 orokin and infested towers for the newest loot and we were all running this shit together. Since I've stopped playing, they've more than doubled the amount of warframes and now there are way more primes and no doubt weapons, mods, and tilesets.
All the new content they add is there to satisfy endgame players, they have nothing there for new players or to get new players to want to get into the game since everyone knows that this game is hard to get into. I think they could incentivise endgame players to run low level stuff with new players to help them get through by giving them the rewards they need similar to Dying Light giving players loot based on their level so an endgame player isn't getting nothing when they play with someone new to the game
Why do people still play Planetside 2, even though it is also a poorly managed game full of flaws?
Again, it's one thing to admit there is flaws to a game and still enjoy it, and playing a game and completely denying its flaws. A lot of the people who play warframe with me are pretty dedicated to the game, they can tell you like they did with me. As for me, the game isn't really something I would pay for, but it's serviceable in it's gameplay and playing it with friends has made it far more enjoyable than a solo/pub grind (for example, I had to grind saryn parts; all I can say about that is, good luck trying to find lobbies open for that).
The main issue I see with the game currently is an extreme drought of actual 'finished' content. Ever since PoE and most likely before, the game has been spoonfeeding us content at a snails pace. Focus has been revamped three times with each reiteration focusing on the barebones and boring operator combat.
The Sacrifice was a complete joke in that aspect. There was no reason for me to work on upgrading my amp other than grinding .033% drop rates on Eidolons. So when the sacrifice comes along, since the game didn't push for me to use a niche aspect of the game, I spent about 20 minutes on the second to last boss because my 5 damage base amp did jack shit in terms of damage. The game did not push me to use the amp system before, then suddenly 6 months later it's relevant to the core gameplay for 5 minutes then forgotten about.
Or even look at the new UI. Was it too much to expect [DE] to actually update the ENTIRE UI rather than four screens? Apparently not since that is exactly what occurred.
Finished content is an absolute joke now. There was supposed to be some gigantic melee rework this year. [DE] actually implemented the first stage of it about a month ago. By directly nerfing all melee weapons in anticipation of the rework. A month later, there is no rework. But oh look! FORTUNA! It's surprising there aren't more people upset about the obvious bait and switch happening. It would make sense if the rework was actually on the near horizon, but it isn't even close. The same thing occured when GPU Particles were introduced. They were hyped up, and halfway finished on release. Even with detailed feedback (some of which I personally posted) it was all ignored because the community was vocal about volt's idle animation being different. And now FORTUNA! Oh great, lets ignore the fact that half of the warframes actually use the new GPU Particle system effectively. Or even the Token system everyone was behind for a few months for sorties was pushed under the rug. The sword-whips took almost more than a year to be made, then were silently added after being hyped up for ages. But lets rework Saryn 4 times!
New content is great, but when [DE] consistently focuses on switching the old with unfinished new content the game suffers for me personally. I enjoy using new things that will 'wow' me for more than 10 minutes at a time. Or actually be useful in the long run. But the game comes across as so unfocused at times that even as a veteran player I can't enjoy whatever flavor of the month content [DE] cooks up. Am i supposed to focus on rivens, focus, standing, raids, or quests? It's incredibly unclear when most new content is built towards 30 minutes of quest time. The game is simply too inconsistent in it's vision right now, and coming from the U12/13 era to now, the game appears to have changed for the worse. Despite lacking content, the game at least felt coherent. Now it's you're either running through space nuking everything, Or engaging in tribal warfare, or grinding archwing, and now what? Gambling in fortuna? Is this game supposed to be a space shooter? a TPS/RPG Hybrid? An open world RPG? The game is so stretched across genres that every new piece of content feels pointless unless 'you' like it. I enjoyed the horde shooter gameplay the game had. Now the game is focused around doing dirty chores on Cetus. Rather than improving and innovating the base gameplay and supplementing it with new content, we have four different modes of gameplay (On Foot, Archwing, Plains, and formerly Raids) with each one becoming more irrelevant with each new update because [DE] needs to overextend themselves rather than focusing on what made warframe 'work' before.
And god forbid you speak out on the forums, otherwise you get jumped on by [DE} knights who see the company as some infallible entity. Or get told it's essentially not your kind of game anymore. I personally enjoyed the game warframe was and was shaping up to be. Not this unfocused mess it's turned into.
Every single part of this post demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the game. There is literally nothing you can buy that you cannot earn in the game, even the premium currency bought with cash can be earned to buy your cosmetics by trading stuff you farm in the game. Skyward already sufficiently covered the fact that the player base is definitely not blindly defending the game, there's plenty of issues, but the game's ambition extends miles, not centimetres, past an assembly line product like destiny.
I fully admit i'm not an expert on this game, these are just my first impressions from brief playtime and initial research. It seems that some of the advanced prime waframes are better than default get "vaulted" and you have no way to obtain them without spending money anymore. Quoting from the wiki: "The game uses an optional payment system: almost all weaponry and Warframes can be earned in game (everything other than Founder-exclusive items and event, retired, or prime items). ", but the "prime" version of the warframe i started with seems to have double the energy, 17 times the armor, and so on, yet is "vaulted" because it was some limited time thing (limited time things being yet another common money extraction method in trashy games). This gives me the initial impression that i missed some "get thing without paying opportunity" boat at some point, feel free to correct me.
I adore Warframe, but like, it's -super- not for everyone, to the point where I'm actually surprised by how popular it is.
ye, vaulting has been p controversial since it first started
especially now, when they spread a single item's parts across multiple relics with duplicates instead of packing them into a single one to prevent drop table bloat
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