3D Artists
The entire place is chock full of ripped models, lots of other people's IP being posted.
Would this technically be warez?
We were recently contacted by some game devs (I say contacted, their community manager came onto Discord and started arguing with random dudes), this is the first time I've known it happen. Somebody had ripped all their weapon models and posted them.
What do you all think we should do about this? What would the consequences be of deleting them? What would the consequences be of keeping them?
Technically speaking, unless they have permission to rip their content from games (CD Projekt Red for example allows this), they shouldn't be publically released, however just showing images of ripped content being used privately is a non-issue, if a dev wants to get pissy over it then they need to directly contact the user.
Its a grey area but is technically warez when its not allowed by the developer.
If you get an actual cease and desist then you'd need to deal with those specific threads, otherwise i don't see the point in effectively killing that community. There are fair use reasons to rip models, and if in so many years there's only been one complaint it's not really a big deal.
Well, this shit has been an age old practise on the forum for getting models for gmod.
If anything, yeah, posting images, discussing asset extraction/reverse engineering and other related activities sounds fine on a surface level.
Linking to packs would be warez as reagy stated.
Is it too far to push this to steam workshop? Perhaps in extraction threads I guess. But this is the main forum for gmod so you could get flak for that within gmod content threads. I'd be fine with having these allowed there, as Valve has it's legal process for removing content from the workshop.
It's confusing why it was renamed to 3D Artists and put under Developers when it's just the old Garry's Mod Models/Skins section, yet we also have a 3D art section in CC. Seems like it hasn't changed either with having practically no original content to speak of, just gmod stuff.
Always been a grey area, and dealt case by case.
Obviously that last one models were being leaked before the game release, which was huge.
Question is would you have tolerated it if only screenshots were posted? And still taken it down still?
If you want to be on the safe side, just don't have links. Pics and discussion should be fine.
dwarden whining about people porting from arma mods isn't really to be taken seriously honestly
Porting from games is age old practice and gmod would be basically nowhere without it, if a developer asks you to take it down do so but most don't care about assets being reused even though eulas etc will tell you not to. IMO it's not warez because having the models as raw assets or compiled into a different engine doesn't actually let you play the original product.
Couldn't you just have a section in the rules saying not to use any ripped assets in commercial projects? There's all kinds of sites dedicated to ripping sprites, models and sounds and they've been around for years. Anyone serious about getting something removed would just send an email
IP vs Fair Use :/
It was never a grey area.
Sharing someone's IP, or parts of it, is of course blatant infringement.
This has always been against the rules on FP, except for in that particular section.
When Dwarden of Bohemia Interactive told certain posters to remove their uploads of their content, he was meet with cynicism, vitriol and ridicule - which is just completely unacceptable behavior towards a game studio. Biting the hand that feeds.
Whether or not you want to enforce it is up to you, but you'll see lots of people trying to claim it's not infringement to protect the community.
Typically speaking, if a company does have a problem with users ripping their content they will contact said user themselves as what has happened in the past (EA contacted someone about removing links to ported Titanfall 2 models in the past)
No point getting involved as it seems to regulate itself unless if you get contacted by a company personally asking you to remove the links I guess.
Not to mention like 90% of Gmod custom content is ripped content. I doubt it's suddenly going to become a legitimate problem.
disappointed this thread wasn't about posting photos of very muscular dudes posing
The ripping sketchfab thing is also not so cool.
I have some things on there, and they are labeled as not downloadable.
Definitely not happy with the forum allowing the discussion of that.
Kinda interesting how it only know seems to pop up when tons of GMod addons are built on ripped models for years now.
I would mostly agree though that there doesn't need to be a blanket ban, as said big companies usually go after their IP if they really don't allow it.
Especially from free games I don't see a big problem unless its a commercially used project.
It would be nice if content that is explicitly said to not be shared/ripped be banned, at least on request by the author.
If somebody reports it (with a link to check) or an author reports it then mods should probably remove the links to a download.
Imo no
Its always going to happen and FP's keeps itself under control by self-censorship when it comes to shit from companies like Bohemia and Games Workshop
Its pretty safe since the porters follow whatever legal alerts they get
(P.S "MUH FSB MUH FSB!")
i don't think anyones talking about that considering that smoothing jesus
You ban it, you lose gmod community basically. Its a pillar of gmod after all. Unless the devs care and have reasons for example the game being ripped from not being released yet etc.
Hey are you ready
Facepunch Forums were set up for Garry's Mod
The Gmod community is still going
Every single game that allows model editing does this
Also Dwarden has not proved he's actually with Bohemia, he could be a contractor or toilet cleaner for all you know, and he was recived with "cynicism, vitriol and ridicule" because he threatned to report people to the FSB, these guys:
https://en.crimerussia.com/upload/iblock/26a/26a38e984ecc494e388ff4cd396d8356.jpg
For downloading and using 3d models
Dwarden should have been banned for that tbh
Ready for what?
Being the official forums for a game that revolves around mods doesn't make warez less... warez-y, much like you'll see tons of official emulator forums where even discussing ROMs is not allowed even thought that's practically a necessity of emulators.
From some quick Googling (on phone atm) Dwarden is listed as a Dev on their official forums. I don't think there's any doubt about his legitimacy. What he supposedly said about reporting to whatever doesn't make his position of a BI dev less legitimate.
From what I saw, he was received that way because he wanted the content taken down in general, and he argued for his stance.
I participated in the thread (maybe multiple threads) where it happened too, and I felt like he was being treated extremely unfairly. It's disrespectful to believe you somehow have some moral high ground in the context of distributing others content.
It's up to @garry and @Hezzy whether or not to support this activity, but there's absolutely no point in trying to argue that it's lawful.
If i remember correctly, Garry's take on it at some point was basically that he doesn't care unless they get complaints or takedown notices, which is why BI stuff is (or was) off limits.
yeah and thats the correct way unless you're someone who's got a weird thing against the Gmod forums
"argued for his stance"
"i will report you to my friends in the FSB you're gonna get arrested etc etc"
Stop ignoring that part to try and make him seem like a sensible game dev lol
he was an angry little gremlin and he's lost anyway, arma 3 stuff pops up everywhere, just not on FP or steam.
Facepunch has had rules against warez for as long as I can remember. The Gmod forum has been the unspoken exception.
I feel that FP should make it's mine up about whether or not warez is acceptable, instead of having a vague subforum exception.
How am I ignoring it? I mentioned it in my post, but I don't have any input on it. What do you want me to say?
I'm not here to argue that Dwarden is infallible, but to be brutally honest it doesn't really matter in the context of copyright. You are distracting from the topic, whether you intend to or not.
I mean, unless the devs or the publishers issue DMCA notices or unless the person ripping/exporting 3D models tries to make money of off them by using the models in their own commercial projects or distributing them without giving any credit to its original authors, then I think it should be fine.
Obviously, if somebody breaks an NDA, then that's a different case altogether.
But then again, if it were decided that ripping/porting 3D models into Source Engine was to be banned on Facepunch then you'd save me and a bunch of other people quite a bit of work and we might eventually even go back to living our lives!
It's funny how you show up now to argue about it being illegal while Garry's Mod has been around for almost 14 years. And surprisingly, model porting is a big part of it. If one idiot decides to dump raw models of a game that isn't out he should get in trouble, not the people that generally rip/port from games where the company has given clearance. On the topic of the Arma 3 thread, all the models were taken down almost as soon as Dwarden started bitching, so what's your point? It's easy enough to deal with one asshole from time to time, don't try to drag down the entire community.
It's a shame that the forum has become just about ripping models, rather than creating them. I have no problem in theory with people doing it. While you could technically say it's warez, the majority of developers don't mind and enjoy seeing their art being re-used for fan projects. But of course, it is their art - so we should honour any requests from individuals.
http://www.wduwant.com/index_uploads/uploads/00a2ee6a3d1a.jpg
He wasn't a sensible dev just concerned about copyright he was a paranoid cunt
look at him lol
Dwarden isn’t even a dev. He’s PR.
I assume you're talking to me.
What do you mean by "show up now"? I've been here for a long time and this is certainly not the first time the topic comes up. And even if it was, should I not be allowed to argue about it? What's the argument here?
I'm not trying to drag down any community, but I would hope that we don't see more threads where people act toxic towards developers for not wanting their content distributed. That really boils my blood.
Anyhow with Garry pretty much restating his previous stance on it, I suppose things are cleared up.
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