NRA chairman says NY's laws have hurt its programs, Cumo says "too bad". - Polidicks

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/06/politics/cuomo-new-york-nra-new-day-cnntv/index.html The NRA suit — filed against Cuomo, the state Department of Financial Services and DFS Superintendent Maria Vullo in May and amended in July — says Cuomo is trying illegally to coerce financial companies into not doing business with the group. But states have the power to regulate insurance law, and Cuomo says New York is "working with the other states" to make sure the sale of the Carry Guard program ends around the country. The NRA filed the suit after Cuomo took action against the sale of "Carry Guard," a program that provides liability insurance for policyholders involved in shooting incidents. "The suit contends that what the state has done "prevents, or at a minimum, chills," the First Amendment rights of the NRA and its members to free speech -- including their right to speak freely about gun-related issues.

In related news, ISIS has complained that Coalition-led bombings are directly impacting their ability to rape loot and murder innocent people and are seeking restitution.

I hope they get it. Clearly it's the infidels' fault for letting ISIS decapitate them in public.

the NRA and people saying things like 'arm the teachers' make it very very hard to say "I am pro-gun" when the people on 'your side' act just straight up fucking stupid

I highly doubt that the NRA is running low enough on money to be worried about their financial situation. They most likely have the backing of many manufacturers that will keep them safely afloat.

Actually they're in a really bad position right now. Their "Carry Guard" insurance from a while back was so poorly written, that it effectively would protect people under it for deliberate firearm usage. The re-insurer they were under at the time for this basically cut ties with them for it and told them they would never do business with them again. Because of this insurance loss, pretty much every major financial institution doesn't want to do business with them either as they don't wanna be held responsible for any major financial risk the NRA could incur. So they basically have no insurance and can't function as a lobbying group due to that insurance being required for several different reasons and no financial institution wants their money either. At this point, unless they can somehow do a 180 and fix everything, they are pretty much screwed in the long term.

Same thing happens in the UK, why must our idiots be extremely good at publicity?

I respect that the NRA has been apart of pro-gun politics, but they really need to go back to their fucking roots. The NRA started on a pretty good premise, they had clubs, and thought people to be better shooters. But they wanted to "promote and encourage rifle shooting on a scientific basis." But since then they've become a very power member of PAC's and because of that you can really tell they went to focus on generating funding by going way into right field. I understand there is a lot of fear mongering on both sides, but that doesn't make it okay to push the shit they've been pushing. It is one of those things - I believe we need people who are Pro 2A and will help in terms of politics. But it is time that someone else takes that up...

Well there's the Gun Owners of America, haven't heard anything bad about them at least. NRA on the other hand have been pretty terrible.

Both the NRA and Cuomo can collectively fuck themselves. Polar opposites who are alike in their zealotry.

Theres also the SAF but neither have the funding to compete with the NRA in lobbying. The NRA is the super lobbying group that gun owners really need, and its members really need to change the core of its leadership ASAP. Its been absolutely tainted with zealous GOO fundamentalism that impedes sane gun control efforts as much as it does the insane ones. I dont think the answer to the NRA problem is to just abandon it, but reform it.

gun owners don't need the NRA, and until they're gone there's not going to be actual grassroots gun rights groups to uphold gun rights.

It's funny cause it seems like this problem actually effects both sides. You got the NRA making gun rights advocates look insane by association and you got certain Democrats making a fool of the whole party with ridiculous gun control laws that don't fix shit. I really wish this country could just move on and stop wasting so much time and energy on this gun debate and fix real problems.

It's absolutely true tbh. It's become so circular that it isn't even funny. I'm pretty confident with most of my views but the 'gun issue' is my biggest mess of an issue. I agree with all the stats a righty will make and then agree with a few of something a lefty will say. Hell, I support almost everything Bernie does, and then he says stuff about guns and all of a sudden I can't see myself supporting what he's saying at all, while I simultaneously can't see myself in what the NRA/GoP says.

My fear is that if the NRA dies, 50% of the pro-gun efforts will go with it.

So correct me if I'm not understanding this right: the NRA was selling insurance to cover legal fees for customers if they get sued for using a gun and now that they can't sell it in NY state, they can't operate due to lost revenue? How much money are they making when selling it in other states?

NRA has some pretty nice insurance for gun owners, and they also have things like guaranteed attorneys/lawyers to help with self defense cases. The last part is why they are so important in the gun rights community. Sure, they suck dick on the legislative level for getting shit forward, but the NRA's saving grace is that they will come and protect you if for whatever reason you get fucked in the ass during a self defense case. As you can imagine, in states with heavy restrictions, people are more inclined to buy insurance, and lawyers/banks tend to pay dividends for that type of thing.

Why would 50% of pro gun efforts disappear if the incredibly corrupt overzealous organization went down? Surely, they don't represent your average gun owner.

It's sorta like when Bell went down. They had plans to push fiber networks across the country, and their breakup ended up postponing it by 20 ~ 30ish years.

50% of those efforts though go too far. look what they have tried with reciprocity, basically trying to do a federal runaround of all states rights to license concieled carry. Then add in the fear and paranoia they spread. they are the propaganda arm of white nationalists now by plastering ads like "They use their schools to indoctrinate your kids, their media to assault you...." that's not pro gun, that's building a goddamn cult

Yea, let the NRA die and then have 2 dozen ununified efforts for gun control lobbying jump up and all effectively do nothing. Or, reform the largest publicly funded lobbying group on the world from the top down instead of trying to abolish it and start new ones. Hurduur grassroots is great and all but it doesnt count for dick without the established experience and memberbase the NRA has. Without the NRA, American gun owners lose their sole (effective) lobbying power.

Did they do this for Philando Castile? or his girlfriend?

Well no, because they didn't have the insurance. It's not something you get by default when you get your permit, you have to buy into their insurance program like any other insurance. In addition it would be a nightmare for anybody to defend him legally in this case because as a person in possession of and a user of a controlled substance, it meant he committed a felony by possessing and carrying his gun, invalidating his concealed carry license. No sane legal team is gonna take up that case pro-bono.

https://youtu.be/PrnIVVWtAag pro 2nd amendment there, nothing in the slightest that' propaganda. https://youtu.be/xh8vFNynb_w no fearmongering there either just telling about iran. https://youtu.be/VJ-wNQIpP54 oh and don't forget its patriotic to not protest the flag, trump, or gun deaths. but ya just say the nra is a gun lobby not the fanatic arm of the right at this point.

I wouldn't say any and all, just the efforts put forward that infringe on the 2nd amendment.

ok I'm gonna have to call you out here, no, local jurisdiction should not override constitutional, federally backed rights. A concealed carry license should be valid in other states just like a drivers license. And yes they can have those gun laws just fine, "too many people in such a crowded location" is just a cop-out and a hypothetical where you purposely assume the worst would occur even though in reality it would be a negligible factor. Population density is largely irrelevant, and does not make your rights null and void. And really? When you say "an actual conversation" I think you mean "there would be less resistance to push through our stupid laws" and "proper restrictions"? Not going to elaborate, I assume? That just tells me you are angry that you aren't getting what you want (likely because of the NRA) and are blaming them for rightly blocking those proposals while making them out to be the boogeyman. Like I don't financially back the NRA, and I think their ads are stupid too, but you can't just portray them as silencers of debate, they just have massive support so why would you expect to come out on top? There has been "actual conversation" on a massive national scale this past decade, don't act like it didn't happen just because it didn't result in what you wanted. And are you really just gonna go out and lie like that about a "growing epidemic"? Murder rates have been steadily decreasing in the US since 1980, and the rate of gun usage for those murders has also been decreasing. [2] Don't let the sensationalism mislead you.

Can you find where I said the NRA is an ideal group of ration gun right advocacy? Oh right I didnt say that at all. You stated that the NRA is a propaganda wing of white supremacy, which just isnt true. Theyve been an absolutely reprehensible group as of late but that doesnt change the fact theyre the sole lobbying group that fights for gun rights. I never stated that gun regulation should be done completely on the federal level, but concealed carry is a right well within the second ammendment and it should be moved to the federal level, or at the very least have reciprocity handled on the federal level. Yea, the NRA sucks, thats why it should be reformed instead of killed. Killing the only gun rights lobbying group and just hoping we can unify a new one is dumb.

Can't reform a group if its rotten from the core to begin with though.

Thanks for the apt metaphor but unless you want to call 5+million people "rotten" thats not really true. The NRA has some god awful leadership at the moment but if you want to change that you have to join the NRA and vote out the current leadership, if youre in support of gun ownership in the first place I guess. The NRA is not an exclusive club whatsoever, anybody can join and anybody can vote in their electoral process. You just have to actually do it.

I see NRA members bitch all the time about management, but never lift a finger to fix it. only 7% of the total amount of members actually vote for their BOD, and the system is rigged in favor of incumbents. A better solution would be the members boycotting it to get fresh blood, but good luck with that.