Shock, the world's third largest nation tops a list of raw number. Would be a bit more meaningful if it was gun murder rate.
In 2016, firearm-related homicides, suicides and accidental deaths were concentrated in just six countries: the United States, Brazil, Mexico, Colombia, Venezuela and Guatemala. Those nations accounted for about half of the estimated number of gun deaths unrelated to armed conflict.
These two countries accounted for 32 percent of the total number of estimated deaths in 2016. In Brazil and the other top four Latin America countries, most gun deaths were homicides. The high rate of gun homicide in these countries is associated with drug and weapon trafficking, research has found. One-fourth of all global gun-related homicides in 2016 took place in Brazil
So, correct me if Im wrong. 50% of gun deaths occured in North and South America. 32% of which were the US and Brazil alone, Brazil accounting for 25% of those deaths. So the US is responsible for 7% of the overall deaths.
Definitely a leader in homicides.
Putting up 15$ that this thread will go for about 15-20 pages.
I dunno about you but being ranked up with a bunch of second and third world countries in firearm death isn't exactly the most prideful thing I've felt for my country. Compared to the rest of the first world, the number of firearm deaths is insanely high, especially when you consider that the US is less than 0.05% of the worlds population yet makes up 7% of the total number of deaths. That's a 140 times difference in the percentages. We're definitely a leader when it comes to firearm deaths, especially in the first world when we shouldn't be having these problems, and I suspect it's likely to do with the fact we have enough guns to arm every man woman and child in this country.
Never said it was something to be prideful of, just saying that the US is top of the chart is very misleading.
I attribute gun crime more to do with the fact that the quality of life in this country is piss poor, not the fact that weapons exist. Ya know, becausw I'm not a moron who thinks guns existing cause deaths.
Ok thanks for the reply.
Shocker. Countries where guns are legal have more gun deaths than countries that don't. Show me a real study - show me common murder rates.
There are many countries much worse off than the US with much low homicide/suicide rates. Poverty, mental illness, and societal friction are not uniquely American problems.
Except it does top the chart for Firearm Deaths overall. Suicide is still a very very dangerous problem related to guns and should be included. That's why the US charts at the top of the leaderboard when it comes to firearm deaths, not homicides, and as stated in the article itself:
Suicide rates have risen across the United States since 1999 (SN: 7/7/18, p. 13).
Previous research has shown that having guns in the house is linked to
higher use of the weapons to commit suicide and to a larger number of
unintentional gun-related deaths.
So both of your points are easily and readily proven wrong. Yes the quality of life has to do with the high suicide rate, but the fact of the matter is it's easier to put a gun up to your head to pull the trigger than take the time to actually make yourself commit to any of the other methods of committing suicide. It's one of the reasons why we have a higher suicide rate in this country, and why measure such a safe stowage laws and mandatory gun safety classes should be put in place. Or do even those simple useful and entirely sensible laws have no place in your anti-gun-control agenda?
"but you see, if we change the reasoning to be something else - the figures show the US still has a massive gun problem"
Maybe it's more to do with how american culture views firearms, everybody and their mom has one, collecting and shooting them seem to be less of a niche hobby than in other parts of the world. I don't think any of that is necessarily wrong or bad in itself but it just seems such a big part of american culture. Maybe it's a combination of this and lots of other things.
Did I say this was uniquely American? Piss poor quality of life tends to cause problems, like murder. Maybe places like Scandinavia have less crime overall because theyre not insufferable places to live.
Except it doesnt "top the charts"? Its behind Brazil and is responsible for 7%, which is bullshit anyways because this is measuring raw numbers instead of basing it off of per capita. Do I need to tell you why using raw numbers as a basis for comparison on a global scale is dumb?
Yea, suicides are an incredible issue in the US. They make up for 2/3rds of gun deaths on an annual basis. Know what might help prevent these deaths? Better mental healthcare and increased quality of life.
Both of my points are easily disproven if you dont subscribe to reality.
Yea unenforceable and ineffectual laws dont fit into my ~agenda~. Id rather enact programs that will actually do something, not ones to make the illinformed like yourself feel better.
Gun culture has nothing to do with it. Guns exist and theyre used in crimes, but their existence doesn't cause crime. Crime is a consequence od greater societal problems and focusing on the tools used in crimes is always ineffectual.
Well, I guess I can't argue with that.. So the root issue is just that crime is high and needs to be dealt with somehow.
There ya go. Life sucks in a lot of places in America and it needs to stop if you want crime to stop. Gun violence isn't the only result of these issues, most of America's societal problems stem from them.
A quick glance at the aggregated intentional homicide statistics on Wikipedia show that the USA is ranked 133. Now I don't believe a lot of those values for a number of reasons but let's not assume that every poor country in the 132 ranked above are misrepresented.
Where the fuck are you getting this 7% figure? Your math earlier was completely wrong. Brazil accounts for 25% of all homicides, not gun deaths in total. According to the original study done here, the US accounts for 15% of all gun deaths in total in the world (37,200 deaths out of 251,000), which is quite a lot and definitely makes it a leader in gun deaths in the world. That's top of the charts whether you like it or not.
I agree. Those would help.
Ironic considering the only one rejecting reality in favor of their beliefs is you. Do you have any evidence at all that safe stowage laws and mandatory gun safety classes wouldn't help, or are you just talking out of your ass and trying to find any to deflect the argument away from guns like you always do?
Realistically though, the only form of gun control to my knowledge which has any effect at all on deterring some suicides were waiting periods. Still a lot of other methods of suicide will easily replace guns in many situations as I have seen many times before. For example, Japan is known to have a fairly substantial suicide rate even though gun ownership is virtually nonexistent in that country. Also far more people are dropping left and right due to overdoses in New Hampshire compared to our gun crime which is one of the lowest in the country.
Again, this is an issue where social reforms will do a lot more than just focusing on guns.
Also for safety courses and storage laws, I wouldn’t really be against as long as they don’t put financial barriers in front of them like requiring a large expensive gun safe which not everyone could afford or have room for in an apartment.
How am I rejecting reality and why would I deflect the topic of gun deaths in a thread about gun deaths? I believe we've talked before and the bottom line is youre talking out of your ass. You're grossly overestimating your knowledge on the subject overall and youre trying to persuade people youre on their side by saying you support 2A rights. I dont know what youre getting at but I've told you in the past that these laws are counterintuitive and can act as barriers to a right.
It doesn't matter whether or not safe stowage laws and mandatory licensing/classes inhibit accidental or purposeful self harm. Theres other ways to achieve the goal of ending suicide, more effectively might I add, without violating constitutional rights. Safe stowage laws would be completely unenforceable in the US as it is.
I'm gettinf the 7% figure from the quote in my original post in the thread. My math was apparently wrong and I apologize.
But again raw statistics are irrelevant. Per capita statistics are the only thing thats valid, and as I previously stated, the US isnt even in the top 25 per capita. Theyre 31st IIRC. Not a leader. We have an issue but we're no where near the worst.
Agaib, do I need to explain to you what per capita is and why its used over raw numbers?
You agree yet youre still in favor of gun laws that will be less effective? Not sure what your motive or rational is here pal.
Compare per capita statistics for rates of violent crime, then compare it to the UN's list of countries with highest quality of life. Find me a 1:1 example.
Reading the article that spawned this, it is pretty obvious that it is bullshit.
The authors suspiciously aren't listed and it is clearly written in the style of a math paper. The language is intentionally obtuse and it fails to go into sufficient detail about datat gaps.
Criminologists, the people who actually do this shit, generally don't make comparisons like this because you CANT. The data doesn't exist.
The US does a good job of reporting (some things) compared to most of the world, but even things like our UCR have massive data gaps that require you to account for them if your paper is going to be considered valid. Taking that to a global scale would generate issues beyond the ability of any model to effectively control for.
The paper is extremely unlikely to be accurate, unfortunately.
Oh no don't post anti gun stuff, you 'll anger the <5 users who spend day and night telling everyone they're wrong.
Even worse still in case no one noticed a certain two moderators who are pro gun have banned anti gun users multiple times and usually do it by applying a late ban randomly to and old post.
It's pathetic.
Hey dude? You see this attitude you're displaying of being "Holier than thou"?
This is what you imagine people respond to you like, but in all honesty, you are the one acting like a tool.
People give you statistics, logical arguments, and you ignore them, and repeat old emotional arguments that have long since been debunked.
No one needs to value what you say, because you don't say anything of value.
Coming into these threads to be dishonest is pretty transparent, and it's all you really do.
You've literally described what they do though lol.
Remember! Guns don't kill people, people do!
Do you know what you do in these threads? You post absent evidence, statistics, or understanding.
What does that do to benefit a conversation? Nothing, you just get to jack off about your particular ideology.
Alright then, India. 32nd for quality of life and 101th for intentional homicides (3.22 per 100,000 in 2016).
Compared to the USA which is 17th for quality of life but 133rd for intentional homicides (5.35 per 100,000 in 2016).
But quality of life values depend on what you measure. We can look at happiness indexes as well. In that case, the US is 18th (6.89) and India is 133rd (4.19).
There are other countries on the list that do better than the US for intentional homicides such as Rwanda, Egypt and Tajikistan.
I don't really agree with the biased moderators hypothesis, but I do think gun control people are massively outnumbered on this forum due to demographics, so debate can be very frustrating. It feels like how Nicholas Cage reacted to the swarm of bees in The Wicker Man.
Lol grow up. Quit acting like a persecuted fool just because people disagree with you.
Thats not a good a basis for comparison. India and the US are very clearly massively different in almost every aspect.
The point I was trying to make with this is that youll never find a proper comparison when youre trying to equate countries in this manner. Poverty and bad quality of life isn't unique to America but the way it exists possibly is.
Perhaps thats because one side is wrong and the other isnt. This isn't a opinion based set of ideals, its the way it is.
You keep saying things like this. Facts and evidence arent subjective my dood. You cant explain away your baseless ideals by saying the data is inconclusive.
Why are you always so hostile and obstinate on this issue? There are far more Americans on this forum than any other group. If the forum was just British people, we'd have the opposite.
The US is anomalous in that it has a relatively high quality of life but also relatively high violent crime. This begs the reason, why? If the US's brand of poverty where it exists is somehow different and causes higher rates of crime then what is the difference? Why is it that unhappy Americans are more likely to become violent criminals than unhappy citizens in other developed countries?
This might come across as rash but, I've noticed that in American society the emphasis is always on the individual instead of the community. It's also likely that because healthcare etc is essentially non existence for those in poverty, it drives people to desperation much quicker, and a lack of faith in the policing and social systems.
These are the biggest differences between the US and Canada, where guns are present in both. I guess if we need to make comparisons we should start there.
Because we have a massive disparity as well, a much different social identity, much different culture, a lot of different factors that basically makes our population a growing body of people who hate nearly every second of their lives, see few options for improvement, and look for any way out.
In essence: We're a nation that is in deep depression an in a suicidal phase.
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