I wonder if this Liberal Prime Minister will even last until the election next year.
A lot of people are even just saying that because of the spill, it will be a labour victory anyway
If gay conversion therapy is not unlawful, I see a major issue
Sexuality is not an ideology or a choice for starters.
gay conversion therapy is literally abuse, usually religiously oriented
lawful or not conversion therapy is unethical pseudo-scientific garbage that assumes homosexuality to be a curable mental disorder. spreading acceptance of such therapy and propagating the views required that drive people to it (nevermind those that are forced into it) is harmful to the LGBT community and breeds homophobia.
this is not a free speech issue and your analogy sucks.
"it's not a problem for me specifically, so why should i care about it?"
he's been PM for only a small amount of time and i already want him to fuck off
Except transgenderism is more complicated than that, it's closer to someone being born with a female brain in a male body or vice versa and changing their body to match their brain. Transitioning is simple a correction of the dissonance between body and mind.
Gay conversion therapy is often pushed on minors who can't choose not to do it, whereas transgender people make up their own mind on the matter - they're completely different.
Conversion therapy is state-sanctioned torture and murder of minors who have been accused of no crime. It's really as simple as that.
You do realize that gay people don't willingly submit themselves to that therapy, right? And that it can do permanent and major damage to their psyche, right?
I swear that we're getting more of them lately... I remember that guy from a few days ago who was posting in my thread about Net Neutrality, and it was totally insane. I like to imagine that they've cloned Tudd and that his many identical brothers are coming back for vengeance.
I find it weird that people can even support it. I can't imagine going through reverse gay therapy, I'm so fundamentally attracted to women that it seems impossible for me to change. I feel like it's no different for gays.
I feel like anyone who supports it doesn't fail to empathize this, I think they just feel like gays are deserving of the punishment and hardship of denying the foundation of their psyche.
I can support it to people who voluntarily want to do it, because freedom of choice etc even if its dumb. But strictly illegal if there isnt a consenting party, ie: children.
I don't think you quite understand the legal part of this: Children can't consent. If you want the consent to do something or with a child, there is only one source from which that consent can come legally from: the parents.
Therefore, if the parents say 'my child consents' then if their child metaphorically pulled out a dead man switch attached to a block of live C4 on their chest which they say they absolutely will blow if they're taken to such a camp they are still legally 'consenting' because their opinion is irrelevant for consent.
You have literally no idea what transgenderism is do you
Didn't know they did this crap in Australia.
I wonder how many days this dickhead will last as PM
thats what i said.
children cant consent therefor it is never legal to send kids to conversion therapy.
No because there's a difference between what "gay conversion therapy" entails, spoiler alert it's literally torture at best and medical malpractice at worst in basically every first world country, and what a religious faith encompassing over 1/5 of the global population happens to be.
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/jm5ng4/the-legal-industry-for-kidnapping-teens
You can't have kidnapped someone when you've been given permission by the only one who can give affirmative or negative consent for them to abduct them.
No, you misunderstand. It would be legal to send them to conversion therapy because their parents can consent for them. The children can't consent to go or not go - but the parents can consent for or against it.
If it would never be legal: explain child boot camps. They're legal because they're in a grey zone where they're not 'illegal' until someone investigates and finds they're actually doing things that could be described torturous, which is made difficult by the fact that the locations of these places are kept secret precisely to prevent that sort of scrutiny. Then, when they're found out, they disband the camp and immediately reorganize under a new company and in a new location.
Torture being used to force compliance and break people down to 'convert' them:
So, when they told me to sit still in the chair I did it. When they strapped me down, I didn’t resist. When they put something in my mouth for me to bite on, I nodded quietly as tears ran down my cheeks.
The man would ask me questions. If I didn’t nod, he would give me an electric shock. Whenever I shook my head as a response or showed any sign of resistance, I was given an electric shock. Then he would keep talking. Looking back, I think they were hoping it would literally teach me to think differently.
My mind raced. I blinked hard, trying not to let them see for a split second that I didn’t agree.
It was so confusing. My instincts and my heart told me one thing, but I had to nod. They were trying to turn me into someone else. It was horrific.
I was totally at this supposed doctor’s mercy. It all depended on his mood.
Sometimes the shock would last for a few seconds, other times it was so long that I blacked out. When I came round my pants would be soaked through. I’d passed out and wet myself through fear — or whatever it was. I have no idea.
Some additional more historical recording on that point
Conversion camps in Australia which are located well on the outskirts of society, where people are often pushed there on recommendation by their churches:
For others, however, the impact of trying to convert is serious and long-lasting. About a dozen people were interviewed for this investigation, some of whom were still so traumatised by the experience or scared of their former church they did not want their identities revealed.
One woman, from Sydney's north shore, said she spent years trawling the internet, looking for conversion therapy "techniques". When nothing worked, she punished herself using self-harm and starvation.
Another Sydney woman, who was sent on a "healing retreat" at a farm in Wilton, recalled the first time she kissed a girl: "I had to run out of the room and vomit because I was so conflicted," she said.
'I am profoundly unsettled'
As for why it's harder to find these sorts of things in Australia:
Closer to home, Victoria's Labor Government attempted a crackdown last year, giving the state's new Health Complaints Commissioner the power to investigate and ban unregistered health practitioners – including any who treat homosexuality as a disorder. As yet, no one has come forward to the Commission.
Human Rights Law Centre director Anna Brown says that, while some countries have sought to ban conversion therapy, such legislation might not capture the less formalised types of practices that are prevalent in Australia.
In 2016, the state government commissioned La Trobe University and the Human Rights Law Centre to conduct research. Researchers tell of an international student who was threatened with being sent back to their south-east Asian country of origin to face the prospect of "corrective rape".
You are correct in that most Australian programs, or at least ones which have surfaced enough to ground that we can actually see them, focus more on inflicting psychological damage than physical traumas -- but that doesn't mean that they don't still employ them on occasion, as I've shown above. If Australian politicians in legal power say 'they don't see a problem with conversion therapy and camps to that effect' you will see them return, just as you saw them vanish into the night when the government started to crack down on them.
My point is maintained nonetheless because it remains true: You can't 'fix' something so fundamental to a person without first breaking them. The army knows this - it has to train congenial and personable people into murderers who will slaughter without second thought when given command -- and so the first thing that's done is breaking people down both physically and psychologically so that they may rebuild these people into killers; the very training itself can break people, well before any real combat's ever experienced.
The only reason why it's softer in Australia is because it's mainly not for profit, I'm sad to say. Churches don't need to have a 'success rate' when they're already working with people who 'live and breathe in having faith'; they have nothing to prove and little to gain for pushing the envelope. The reason it's mostly non-profit though (or incredibly underground when for-profit) is because they know it attracts the government's attention -- attention they'll be far less fearful of if politicians start relaxing their shoulders and indicating they're going to turn a blind eye.
What I meant in my original post is that it shouldnt be legal, when it currently is. Gay conversion is bollocks but I dont see why a consenting adult can't voluntarily do it if they really wanted to.
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