Ignore the headlines - the world is getting better |BEME News] - General

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHwKyJOlZxU

Everyone should read “enlightenment” by Steven Pinker before dismissing this video our world has objectively been improving as time has gone on despite how it looks seems or feels most of the time

I had some Jehova's Witness people at my door trying to convince me the world was getting worse a few weeks ago and I mentioned how infant mortality, widespread vaccinations and such show that's not true. They came back to me with wealth inequality, and whilst that's certainly a big problem, the world is still improving overall.

Wealth inequality is the same as it has always been historically in many regards. Historically a few people have always held a vast amount of wealth and hoarded it. Today we see much the same thing on a global scale so it has gotten worse but not to such a degree that we can say the world is worse.

I honestly do agree the world is getting better. It's usually what keeps me sane most of the time only reason I worry as much as I do is that certain aspects that are getting worse in areas affects me personally (such as immigration) so I feel like I have an understandable worry. We really do need good news more often. Bad news means more views for the stations so of course that's what they'll talk about all the time.

I was speaking more specifically about US wealth inequality, as I know that would be more relevant to most FP'ers: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGrnYwsUQAA__F0.jpg Still, your post seems to be acting like I was saying the world is getting worse because of wealth inequality, when I was saying the opposite and just explaining that I disagreed with the proselytisers at my door saying that.

No I’m just expanding on your point. Not arguing. Expanding

Ah, fair enough. I've had it before where people elaborate and I misinterpret, but I didn't realise this time either. Oops. Sorry 'bout that.

But for how long will it remain that way? The host mentioned climate change in passing, but it's the issue that trumps every other one. If not stopped, it will ruin every aspect of our lives, if not worse. What use is reducing poverty, war-related death and illiteracy if we're going to let slide the one thing that will cause a mass extinction event, extreme disruption of our farming infrastructure that we may not be able to tackle, mass exodus, and deaths in astronomical amounts that dwarf every war and massacre of the 20th century? If not the outright collapse of our civilization? Yes, the media's focus on ultimately irrelevant issues such as terrorism or plane crashes is misplaced. But so is general optimism and confidence in the idea that since we're currently getting better, we'll keep following that path indefinitely.

Better does not mean good, and I find Pinker errs around that fact a lot. The world is of course a better place than it was a century ago, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't continue striving. We can have an excellent world.

... he literally never says we shouldn’t and says we should strive harder holy fuck can you miss the point of his book harder and worse than this

I haven't read the book I've just heard him talk a hell of a lot and find it no surprise that he pushes the point that 'the world is actually better now than it was' (duh) along with his plenty questionable stances. Chill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro&index=142&

Why are you talking about the book? You think I could've bought it and read it in the span of one hour? Whose arguments am I dismissing? I'm referring to the author of the video. If you think that calling attention to the reality of climate change and emphasizing how much shit we're actually getting ourselves into is "doom saying" then I don't know what to tell you. Because the media treating the issue as being no more important than shit like terrorism certainly hasn't spurred the general mobilization and introspection necessary for us to correct our course. Claiming that things are actually getting better, that no radical change is required, that the status quo is something to be enjoyed, that's dangerous thinking. Because driving cheerfully into a wall isn't something I'd call "things going well".

That isn’t the claim I’m making...? But please misinterpret more

If it isn't then perhaps you could clarify it? Because it looks like you're saying that the stance I present is doom saying and counter productive, and that I'm "ignoring his arguments". I'm not misinterpreting your post on purpose, I'm not an asshole who goes out of his way to get a rise out of people.

Unless that was the kind of argument you wanted to delve into, which kinda proves my point, then I dunno why you're talking about tearing systems down. I never said we should.

Not deeply rethinking it and letting it run its course until it gets torn down directly by environmental catastrophes isn't going to result in any better an outcome.

This. Until world temperatures stop rising every year and the ice caps stop melting, everything is not bloody sunshine and rainbows.

Did I say that was the only option? no I didn’t. I don’t know where you’re getting half of the implied arguments you think I’m making from. you may think you don’t do stuff to get a rise out of people but why do you feel the need to imply I said so many things I haven’t if that’s the case? Yes we have to fix things and make a better world. I would like to do so on the basis of real world facts though, and if we just flatly act like everything is worse that won’t help and doesn’t help. Climate change is a severe issue. I’m not downplaying it. I am saying that simply putting out nothing but negativity doesn’t help though. As for “tearing down the system”, crumpets stated I’m not advocating for more social or economic conservatism, but acting like we can just reinvent our societal structures to have a better designed society is naive. I don’t think we can do away with capitalism without seriously hamstringing our progress forward. I get people like you think I’m wrong, and a whole host of other derogatory terms I’ve seen gleefully tossed about in these discussions but I haven’t seen serious counter arguments to what a post capitalism society resembles and how it’s “better”. I understand that capitalism is why our climate is where it is. I am not disputing that. I dispute that we must look at our world through nothing but depressing lenses, I believe the only way out from here is more capitalism. The literal only alternative is authoritarian control of our markets, industries, and lives. Be negative all you want. I can’t make a comment without you guys implying significant extended arguments into my mouth. Have at it.

The world can get better on average or in other regions but it can still mean that a lot of places don't see any positive changes, they either just stagnate or go back. Not sure if most people actually think the world is going bad, usually people are pretty centered around their close bubble anyways. When wages drop, retirement is questionable, old age poverty rising and all that its hard to be really happy about global decrease in child deaths or increased literacy which mostly happens in 3rd world countries. Don't think the video is bad but it doesn't consider the distribution of improvements.

Why are you saying the thing you said you hadn't said, then? You're literally saying "I know capitalism is why we're in deep shit. I believe we need even more of what put us in that situation to get us out of it." It makes absolutely no sense. Even without accounting for climate change, reports from the Club of Rome have indicated that indefinite growth leads to collapse, and we're currently following the two worse scenarios that was predicted there. Technological innovation that would bring us to a post-carbon society in the next decade while continuing our current growth trends and maintaining our excessive way of life is just as much a pipedream as going straight to a post-scarcity model with our current capabilities. Even if it were remotely possible, it would be an insanely irresponsible bet to make. Real life isn't an action movie where the hero always manages to think up a way to get himself out of harm at the last minute. The only surefire way to reduce our emissions to a reasonable level in time is to reduce excessive and superfluous consumption, and accept to live slightly less convenient and luxurious lives to drastically lower our carbon footprint. It starts when people stop being consumers first and foremost and start acting like citizens. We have to collectively accept to sacrifice economic growth for long-term security of our civilization. If we don't, why would those in power even bother to do something about it, when they're the first to personally benefit from said growth?

The video seems to be addressing a rather superficial form of cynicism. It's still important because it affects a lot of people but cynical friends I know are not ones that believe in bleak statistics, but ones that see impending doom in infinite economic growth and climate change.

Everything is shit burn it all down

The point of the video is to compare how the world is doing on average versus how we percieve the world is doing. To me it's very interesting that in europe and US, where we all constantly recieve sensationalized catastrophic news, almost everyone think things are going to shit, when 40% of chinese people think the world is getting better (because it is for them in some areas, maybe not so much for the western world in some aspects. It does make them look more thankful for what they have). Did you watch the full video? He explains the opposite idea, that pessimism and awareness of what's going wrong in the world is the drive of progress. The title and thumbnail makes it feel like he's simply saying that every is going well but the video is more neutral than that, and more about pessimist vs optimist worldviews.

You think so? Then tell us how you would reorganize such a system so that it stops doing the one thing it's structurally designed to incentivize. Capitalism is literally centered around maximizing profits and fostering growth. To transition into more sober lifestyles goes against that principle. If citizens want to make such a transition, capitalism will have to be dragged along kicking and screeching, it won't do so willingly. You claim that we don't offer realistic alternatives. What's your alternarive version of capitalism that would be realistically sustainable?

Not any school of capitalism practiced in reality though, or anything close to it for that matter. Pretty much any form of capitalism that isn't critically reliant on the support of the unattainable idea of infinite growth would require pretty much a complete overhaul of our entire society, and considering that that was your whole argument against anything that isn't capitalism to begin with, I'd say it's a moot point.

I don’t have a rubric, or a societal plan. But I’m not advocating tearing our world apart to end up where we fucking started. What does “‘more sober lifestyles” even mean? I don’t believe everyone needs to live a life style of consumption and I’m not advocating for that but honestly, have you thought about what a post capitalism society is? One where people cannot sell goods or buy goods unless the government is okay with it? I can’t, and frankly if that’s the only way we save our world, I’ll eat a bullet. Im a socialist who wants free healthcare, a better support net, and I don’t want to flatly demolish capitalism. You say it can only do “indefinite growth” and nothing else. I don’t believe this is a fair view of what a market economy even means. Tell me what do you envision our society as in 50 years with your ideals guiding the way?

I feel like the world is consistently improving. But given the advent of Climate change and the rise of misinformation, far-right/alt-right groups, fanatical terrorism. Society seems to become more and more on the verge of going to shit. Even though it is improving. In a nutshell. Imagine you're climbing an endless ladder. The more you climb, the stronger you get. But the higher you are, the easier it is to fall off, along with how much more damaging the fall will be.

So how do you deal with inefficiencies in the system if you’re only tool to remove them is government mandated control